Jesus held on the cross with nails in his hands

So Mary had sex? with who?

God is God, he can do whatever he likes.

The idea that something came from nothing, on the other hand, is a logical impossibility.

The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic doctrine. It's not found anywhere in the Bible.

Which we know can’t be true

The doctrine is that Mary didn't have sex with any man.
She was impregnated by God. To give birth to Himself.

I'm Agnostic.

No one is born from a virgin and no one is born with sin.

And the Immaculate Conception is not Jesus’s conception, but Mary’s, anyway.

Celebrated on Dec 8th, so not really an Easter thing. An unfortunate number of Irish women born on this date were called Concepta.

The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic doctrine. It's not found anywhere in the Bible.

The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic doctrine. It's not found anywhere in the Bible.

Yes that’s quite true . ( I mean in terms of Christian followers that is)
But the key concept for Jesus is that he was born of a virgin, ie not from sin.

Had Mary sinned in order to conceive then Jesus would’ve been born with original sin and essentially the same as everyone else.
In writing the Bible Jesus had to be special, he had to be different in the eyes of the authors and church.

Before Christ's crucification only the lowest of the lows in society were sentenced to crucification. It was a very common form of punishment. Everyone saw and knew it including children.
The uprising after His Resurrection by His disciples, who were all crucified as well, including Peter who was crucified upside down because he felt it was an honour to be crucified upright like Jesus, and followers who embodied Christ's teaches which form the basis of values,ideology and culture in the West and countries influenced by the west is the reason why you can think it's gruesome.
The Roman Empire would've continued to reign in its form with crucifixions, gladiators etc.
The Jesus movement is the basis of free healthcare (good Samaritan), education, monogamy, fairness, equality etc we enjoy today.

Even the humble first aid box, the Red Cross an international symbol of free help to the needy rich or poor all stem from the crucification of the Son of God who did no evil, healed people, advocated for children etc yet He gave Himself up to be crucified like a criminal.
There's a lot to teach from the meaning of this weekend.

This is poignant video to help understand https://x.com/SpeakLifeUK/status/1773736988195058084?t=09kQ03hUV4tq4fNaRkhayg&s=09

A good book on the topic. https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/B0B3H573VB?source_code=ASSOR150021921000R

A lot of the Bible, Christianity and many religions have very gruesome tales.

Many childrens books are also very gruesome, I’m thinking Grimms so called Fairy Tales.

I don’t see an issue with teaching the story of Easter to children and the use of nails is nor more gruesome than a lot of childrens literature.

@kkloo - I don’t agree with the concept of sin but if it exists it would apply to everyone including Jesus - why would he be exempt. Being born immaculate isn’t physically possible so it’s a piece of fiction rather than fact - similar to the supposed miracles - walking on water - also not possible

This makes no sense though really.

Jesus wouldn't have been born with sin anyway because he's actually God.

And if Mary was born immaculate it was surely because God chose her to be born that way.

If he could make an exception for her then why not fix the problem in all of us instead of being so annoyed at his creation and needing to create Jesus in order to free us from the sin.

Also it's taking the piss to create people with urges to reproduce, give them sexual urges and then say that the parents sinned by having sex and therefore their baby was born with original sin.

It's like an abusive parent blaming their kids for the way they turned out....and then the parent gets a bit of help (by creating Jesus which allowed him to understand us) and then we're supposed to be eternally grateful that our parent managed to soften up a bit.

I don't believe the symbolism and the stories do explain the concepts of good works and deeds!
I do like some of the stories and how they are interpreted in a new age spiritual way, but not in religious ways 😅

The original sin aspect I understood ( also Catholic here ) was not the babies ability to sin but the sins of their parents in having sex.
Sex caused the babies to be born and baptism cleansed them of that original sin. We carry the sins of our fathers, I believe is the phrase used.

Again my Catholic understanding is much the same idea as I previously quoted. Adam and eve were created as pure by God by then sinned, ie had sex because of a flaw in the creation ie humans are tempted to do bad things. Of them we are all created by sex and with the ability to sin.( and before anyone comes back with a comment about that one I’m actually in the Darwin camp )

The birth of Jesus was without original sin because he was born of a virgin. That’s key to the idea. Only Jesus was born pure and only Jesus therefore could save mankind from ‘eternal damnation’ and by dieing he created a pathway for everyone to live an eternal life in heaven. Or indeed come back after, which is why Catholics pray for the sole and why it was always important to bury and not cremate.
In the RC church it is understood that if you ask for forgiveness and pay penance it will be granted because that’s why Jesus died. He took on the suffering of future sinners.

As an aside. I’m am personally of the idea that the bible is a story. Not all is based on fact. I do not believe in miracles or that priests literally change wine into blood at mass, I believe in the symbolism only. I believe it is a book used to support those in understanding concepts of good works and deeds. The stories are a way of explaining those.

However now, in order to keep up with the times, we interpret the teachings on sex of the RC religion as ok as long as you’re married.

From your earlier post- is this what you believe?

See my post 1st para @ 15:35pm.

Do you not think the teachings are wrong?

We are talking about the teachings of the RC church.
Not what we believe is right or wrong about those teachings.
As noted the RC church like so many churches are having to and have evolved over time to fit in with an evolving society, hence the example on cremation.