To be in this job and feel poor?

When people overcommit for their mortgages it never ends well. I recall years ago, I was 30 and really wanted to buy a property. My colleague/friend at the time got a mortgage on something like 6/7 times her salary, I had to get a guarantor mortgage and eventually I removed the guarantor from it etc... but luckily I was turned down for the big mortgage. Guess who was whingeing years later about how they'd borrowed too much and what an expense it was for them?! Luckily her rich parents helped her out in the end. I knew people who did fixed rate mortgages and then were shocked when the term ended and they shot up after that.

This is tricky, as so little information is given, especially in terms of the figures. Have you ties to your area? If not, try moving somewhere cheaper. You would find that, not only housing, but many other things are cheaper. Otherwise, consider changing jobs, or lifestyle, or accept your lot. It's a hard thing to say, but it is what many people have to do. Student loans are a burden, supposedly balanced by higher earning potential. However, that doesn't take expenses into account.

Yes I see that my mortgage is lower. But I also earn less.

I do understand that the stagnation in wages in the UK has led to a huge drop in living standards, the inequality in this country is disgusting and hard working people should be able to earn more.

I just object to someone who earns £58k, has no dependents, owns their own house, has a car on finance, has job stability etc, calling themselves poor. I don't think they are poor. They could always choose to trade their car in for a cheaper, older model, get a lodger, investigate why their energy bills are insanely high. Ok we can argue that OP shouldn't have to do these things. But poor people don't have the same choices.

OP is choosing to prioritise living alone in a two bed house with a car on finance over having holidays and eating cheaper food (focusing on those things because she's said she can't afford holidays and has to eat beans on toast). Which is fine if that's what she wants to prioritise, but it is still a choice that many don't have.

Yes I recognise that my financial situation is not exactly the same as the OP, but I am a long way from considering myself poor.

Well said! People spend more money than they can afford on properties and cars and then are suprised they are broke...

To be fair i dont think you realise how well you have done. £58k a year is a big salary and to own a 2 bedroom house on your own is a big achievement.

when you say what is the point? Well if you didnt work hard to get the salary you got then you would be far worse off than you are now.

Are you an architect by any chance?

i totally get why you’re disheartened. At 35, having trained for 7 years in a good profession it’s fair to expect to afford a reasonably comfortable life.

But… you are where you are unfortunately. Hopefully rates will drop a little. What’s the term of your mortgage? Have a look at all of your debts- mortgage, loan, student loan etc and pay off the highest interest loan as a priority. I’d take a lodger to do this and reconsider the car you have, I know you’d rather not, but if you want to improve your circumstances you’ll need to take a short term hit.

Things will get better. Can you speak to your employer to discuss a pay review or possibly a car allowance?

You are not being unreasonable for feeling this way.
Practically speaking, I'd look at going for a cheaper car first. If that doesn't help, explore relocating to another part of the country if it is possible.

I make no comment on when you bought your house but £900 a month is £400 less than she is paying, and quite a big difference in terms of take home pay.

To illustrate, let's say you earn £50,000 with Student Loan payment plan 2. Take home is £3,060.

To cover that extra £340 to make a £1,300 mortgage payment, you need to earn £57,200.

So far on this thread people have guessed that the OP studied law, medicine or architecture. How depressing that no matter which 'sensible' degree you choose, you're still fucked.

I sympathise. That sounds like a sad situation - for everyone being snide to OP yes it could be worse, but things can always be worse. She's still allowed to be upset at her struggles

The hike to 15% was on a far smaller amount relative to salaries at the time. And, of course, plenty of people didn't survive it and got repossessed.

@TinkerbellsAssistant

We survived a hike to 15%

I wondered when this would come!

You didn't ever borrow the maximum because you didn't need to.

Your argument boils down to 15% of a small amount is as bad as, or worse than, 2% of a large amount.

The problem is that now it's 6% of a large amount and large is so much larger relative to salaries that your argument is worthless.

But even back then, you get a fixed mortgage for X years at 15% interest, your mortgage payments were fixed for X years.

With high inflation your salaries went up substantially over those X years so the mortgage became more and more affordable.

On the other hand, if you got a mortgage X years ago at 2% but had wage stagnation for a decade there's little to no corresponding improvement in affordability.

The mortgage is the one thing here that OP has a right to be angry about, a jump from 800 to 1500 per month because a chancellor couldn't add up is disgusting.

You're either being deliberately obtuse, or you just don't grasp basic economics.

@MidnightPatrol Although their mortgage might be a 'paltry' £1300 a month, we don't know how much they pay for their car and the student loans for 3 degrees.

You can't pick out one outgoing in isolation.

OP doesn't seem to be able to budget.

It really does depend where you live. I live in the north west. That would actually buy quite a lot. My husband and mine combined incomes are £40k and we have one car and two kids. We get by fine...I used to earn more, but chose quality of life over career. Consider moving if your down south. Your money will get you a lot further if the pay drop in your field is small up here. Also if you eventually meet someone or maybe take in a lodger...cost per head will lower considerably 👍

I used to be a social worker. I have two degrees and was the most experienced in my team. I only earned an extra £3 and hour at the top of my payscale than I do now working as a cleaner 🤷🤷🤷 (I left my career as it was stressful and impacted my family as a result). Crazy times. My point is effort, intelligence and education certainly does not guarantee high income. Maybe you need to rethink your career too if that matters 🤷

Regarding interest rates, really, what were they supposed to do.

errr....look at the historical rise of interest rates and make sure they could afford a big increase?

If they are clever enough to have 3 degrees, some appreciation of historical huge rises might be useful. So borrow less, buy a 1-bed, don't have car on a lease, - all choices.

We survived a hike to 15% but only because we didn't ever borrow the maximum, so we had wriggle room for interest rate rises.

Regarding interest rates, really, what were they supposed to do.

They need somewhere to live.

And - renting might be even more expensive.

An adult in the top 10% of earners should be able to afford a two-bed flat.

£220k at 5% is £1,300 a month.

I noticed a comment I would have to agree with and say, could you not rent out a room with someone you are comfortable with. Regular income and someone to have to chat to if you so wish.

Other money making ideas is rent a car park space out if you have a driveway with a free space.

I think your feelings about it are normal tho.

Good luck

Sorry @SquirrelMadness .

I misread.

Training for 7 years? Bachelors, Masters, PhD?
Medicine/ Law/ Dentist/Pharmacy? Other HCP?
None of them guarantees a high income except City lawyers.

The mistake is the car and possibly taking out a mortgage where you didn't allow for a rise in interest rates.

OR you've got a rum mortgage deal and could get a much better one.

How much is your car finance? I bet you're spending £400 a month on it.

I had friend who was an architect and surveyor. He was self employed and became rich from absolutely nothing. He had a group of developers he worked for and he got properties from them at lower prices (on mortgages) that they did not sell. He had over 50 properties at one time. He rented a block of 25 houses to US air force families for over 30 years - I could go on. Perhaps you did medicine though? Any possibilities for doing private - especially abroad?

It's not £4kpm. I earn £72k and take home is just over £4k pm.

I switched off from the 'poor me' when you said you have a car on finance. If you can't afford it, get a cheaper one and that will save money.

You own your own home, more than many can dream of. Your figures don't add up unless you car is several hundred pounds a month and that's exactly the problem.

I think you're mistaking me with the OP. I said I had three degrees, the OP said she'd spent 7 years training for her career.

I agree with everything you've said. I also never own a car on finance. I've always had a second hand car. When my car did have a huge repair bill I scrapped it as it wasn't worth spending that much money on. But my second hand cars gave always lasted me a long time.

I agree that it was a choice for me to do three degrees, and I feel very privileged. I know lots of academics with PhDs earn very little as I was one of them ha ha.

My point was that I'm on a lower salary than the OP and I don't feel poor, I feel privileged. I think it is possible to live happily on a lower salary. I understand the point people are making when they say we shouldn't have to, but I think life is better when you appreciate what you have rather than feeling bitter about what you feel you deserve.

How have you worked out that £58k is £4k a month?

Get a lodger.

We have had UK wage stagnation for years. Part of the problem is we have 18m more people in the UK than when I was born and in 2024 740,000 a year net lawful immigration highest in our history plus we have a benefits system which in effect subsidises many big employers like supermarkets to pay less because families on minimum wage will get state top ups. So wages don't reach their proper level as it were. Couple that with massively high taxes on the higher earners, no child benefit for many , higher earners losing the single person tax allowance and either 9% graduate tax on top for younger ones or vast amounts to paid to your children at university and perhaps people should leave. I would like about 20m people to leave as we are v ery crowded - even if we are worse off if they go.

It is quite hard to compare generations because some old people are not well off and some are and because over a 70 year life most people will have had some good and some harder times. I graduated in 1982 when we had that year the worst unemployment in FIFTY years - 3 million. It was very hard. We had also had 3 day weeks, power cuts and the country was on its knees and highest tax rate in the 70s was 99%. Yet that was not harder than my parents had it with bombs falling on them in WWII in England and national service and rationining extending into the 1950s. Nor do I feel I have experienced some kind of life long golden era of luck. I have no pension other than state, will work until I die, I paid off my mortgage last year. When I had babies I worked until in labour and took 2 weeks of annual leave because I did not even get the 6 weeks at 90% pay and I was the major wage earner. I have also paid 5 sets of children's university fees too - whereas my parents paid our minimum grant up to the maximum but had none of the fees to pay. I am very happy with my choices including of career and my life but what makes me feel luckiest of all is I don't seem to get ill and am happy - I cannot put a price on that, it is the best thing.