Worklessness

you are currently experiencing worklessness ie, you are without work. As long as it encompasses all people without work, including retired people, SAHP etc rather than being used as a derogatory term for some 'workless' people, I'm ok with it. Though perhaps 'workfree' is better for those who are able to choose not to work.

So you're happy for it to be used as a derogatory word as long as it's used against ALL people who cannot, are not available to or choose not to work?

To me, it sounds straight out of a Daily Mail hate-piece, where they feature a 'feckless' mum with 6 young children and insist on describing her as 'jobless' in the headline. Whatever unwise choices she may or may not have made in her life, do people really expect her now to be able to hold a paid employment role as well as caring for half a dozen little ones?

'Unemployed', 'economically inactive' and 'workless' all mean different things.

People may use particular terminology, whether correctly or incorrectly, for political means or as a form of sensationalism (because the worklessness total will always be the biggest number) or out of laziness or misunderstanding, but in official statistics the three terms are value-free, descriptive terms that have specific definitions that have been used for many years and refer to different groups of people. The actual term 'worklessness' primarily emerged when there was a shift from using job / jobless to work / workless to describe people's employment situation in recognition of the changing nature of what 'a job' is.

Unemployed people are people who are out of work but are actively looking for work and are available to start a job.
Economically inactive people are people who are not working and who are not actively looking for work and not available to start a job.
Workless people are all people who are not working for any reason, basically the total number of unemployed people plus economically inactive people plus some people in other categories.

Including college and university aged people is ridiculous. If you're in full time education, you have a full time occupation. If you have to work throughout university, that's time and energy taken away from your studies. I had to work over 15 hours a week at university, sometimes over 20. It really impacted my studies, especially as it was a very time consuming course to do. This idea that students should work is unfair, and then we wonder why we have people entering the workforce with few qualifications. Maybe if they had the time and energy to actually learn something they'd be able to offer some bloody skills.

I believe worklessness js being used over the term unemployed as has already been witnessed there is a ramping up of pressure towards retirees in addition to disabled. Economically inactive has also Bern used. The push is to get everyone in work and contributing otherwise they are a drain on resources regardless of status.

Also (and I will shut up in a minute)

You ARE unemployed. It is what you are. Your responsibility

You SUFFER FROM worklessness. Just another victim /not my fault / society made me do it depersonalisation. Not the fault of the individual.

But being less facetious 😁 I assume it's just a woke move to make the signifier/word more about the "situation" and less about the intrinsic quality of a person. Worklessness (what a stupid word) refers to a person, without work. In the same way that joylessness refers to a person without joy. It's not a reflection on the individual. "Unemployed" has unpleasant connotations about the person themselves (the word is often used as a synonym for lazy/workshy/benefits cheat). I assume it is an attempt to move the narrative away from the person, towards the situation they find themselves in. Still vomit inducingly woke and unnecessary though.

Bed sounds like dead. Does that mean I'm going to die if I go to sleep?

it is a bit of an odd word to use. Do you think they are referring to:

unemployed = someone without a job but actively looking for work

vs

worklessness = not even interested in getting a job

I think it's so that these retirees could pay for the state services they consume. Even though they may still be paying some tax, it is unlikely that they are a net contributor as they would need to be paying income tax and full NI on 30k plus to be actually paying their way. And this is not taking into account that they are likely using the nhs a lot more than average. So from the government’s point of view it makes sense to encourage this very valuable, experienced, potentially higher earner cohort back into employment.

It’s complex.
Check out jobs for instance, these are now filled with shift workers who do week days as well. Supermarkets don’t want to have to authorise alcohol payments either for under 18’s.
so that rules out supermarkets with a bit of back room available.

zero hours contracts means cafe work is not as attractive. I overheard an interview at a cafe recently. The owner explained if the weather was bad she would be sent home without pay. that’s hardly an incentive to turn up. Add to that never knowing when your work is, again it’s difficult.

small businesses are becoming fewer in numbers, with insurance implications for employing under 18’s.

I whole heartedly agree part time work for students is incredibly valuable. It’s just not that easy anymore

My mum and uncle were mature students in the 90s, both were dirt poor but no tuition fees, grants and the ability to claim dole while there meant they didnt need to work around it, lived pretty well and came away debt free. Neither drove and buses seemed much better. I went to uni mid 00s, worked part time around it (fixed hours and job protection was better then), accrued lots of debt but still couldnt afford to finish so no degree to show for it. I cant even see the point in DD trying unless she wants to be a doctor or something.

Now i'm finding being a single parent fucks everything up. I lost my job very unexpectedly with virtually no notice a week ago and trying to find something that will work around school hours is absolutely impossible. I dont have a choice about working but if I did, I certainly wouldnt bother.

Successive governments have have had policies of keeping young people in education until 16, and then have as many as possible go to university, partly to keep them off the unemployment statistics.
They are now finding this policy has back fired now a lot of cheap EU labour is no longer available.

A lot of the lower end, part time work traditionally done by students needs a reset of attitude from both job seekers and employers.

I worked through A levels and uni. It did me the world of good and helped me to support myself.

But those jobs were fixed hours. I did 4-8 two nights a week and Saturday and Sunday.

The mass of EU workers (especially those coming from places where they didn't intend a long term move but simply to earn as much cash as possible to take home - not a criticism it was a sensible move) allowed employers unreasonable expectations. It started the '16 hours a week must be available 7am-7pm' trend.

This doesn't work for anyone with other commitments whether they are childcare or studying.

Some have moved back to more fixed working patterns, others are still stuck in that period and need to change. I think it's one of the positives of Brexit in the longer term but we are still in a transition period (and no, this doesn't mean I agree with all of it, just that we were setting up unsustainable work trends that don't help young people or carers).

It's to try and demonise and dehumanise. To say that as long as there are job vacancies (however inappropriate, lowly paid or soul destroying) then people should do those jobs else it's totally their own fault. It's a very black and white way of thinking. I tend to only see it in the right wing rags/ media though. Like the notion that someone enjoys being on £75 quid a week or whatever palty sum they give for jobseekers allowance nowadays.

It's ridiculous. The economy needs people to keep working but the demographic of workers is being squeezed from all angles.

Higher up the chain, the early retirees, that might not always be out of choice. There is certainly ageism when you hit your 50's.

Lower down the chain younger people. Work no longer pays. Even if you do all the 'right' things most people won't be able to buy a property you'll be lucky to pay someone else's mortgage for them on a btl property which gives you no security.
Mix in cliff edge tax bracket (60% at £100k) and student loan interest rates it's hardly surprising that people aren't busting a gut any more.

You're not wrong OP.

The Tories have nothing positive to campaign on as they have fucked up everything. All they have now is the language of hate, division and racism.

But most people see through the rhetoric now, as evidenced by the polls. Even the sad fruit loops who buy into it are deserting the Tories and moving to Reform UK.

The government need to take responsibility for their policies.

Raising the retirement age means:

• more people aged 60+ claiming disability benefits, as they are just not fit to continue working
• more parents unable to work, as grandparents are working and can't cover childcare

The cost of living crisis means that lots of traditional jobs for students have reduced - cafes, bars, clubs are shutting down constantly, as they can't afford to run. And if students are paying £££££ for their degree, they are not going to take jobs for inflexible employers, who will expect them to miss classes for shifts, etc.

Interesting that you see it as more derogatory. Because I feel the term moves the description from something the person is -YOU are unemployed- to something external the person lacks, you are currently experiencing worklessness ie, you are without work. As long as it encompasses all people without work, including retired people, SAHP etc rather than being used as a derogatory term for some 'workless' people, I'm ok with it. Though perhaps 'workfree' is better for those who are able to choose not to work.

Yeah, no set hours, low hourly pay and piss poor public transport especially for unsocial hours working means it's hard to combine studies and part time work.

All these factors also make working difficult for people who aren't students too of course. For parents with young children there's the additional expense of childcare - not to mention that zero hours contracts are incompatible with contractually agreed childcare costs.

Wages have gone up a bit in the last couple of years but even that increase is outstripped by inflation and prior to 2021 they were stagnant for thirteen years, having fallen in 2008.

Compared to twenty years ago, work pays less and is more difficult to do in practical terms thanks to lack of set hours and increasingly poor public transport to get there.

From what I understand (not an expert, just observed), those kind of jobs now want you pretty much available 24/7. When I was a student 30ish years ago, I worked on a market stall on a Saturday and in a pub (waitress as under 18) Sunday evening 6-11. Now, a lot of places don’t have just 1 shift available, they want you to commit to more.

Either that or they only employ over 18s as they no longer want separate bar and waiting staff but want someone who can do everything. There aren’t a lot of places (especially hospitality) who let you say you can work Tuesday afternoon and Thursday evening. Lots of places have also cut their hours and only open at weekends now.

But they arent filling the jobs needed to keep the economy going. Its a rather new view that its no longer enough to provide for yourself, but your moral duty to keep working even when you don't need to because we need workers to keep the lights on.

The irony being is that when I was student (mid 90s, grants had been pretty much abolished but pre tuition fees) everyone except for the wealthy students had a part time job during term time and a full time job during summer holidays (usually shop assistant, call centre, pulling pints, waiting tables etc). Are these jobs no longer available? With students facing greater costs is there not more of a push factor into getting a part time job??

Exactly this.

In particular, I think they are pissed off with everyone who retired early during COVID

If you've retired early you're supporting yourself by savings/private pension – you don't get the state pension any earlier. And you pay tax on any savings interest and pension.

@jen337

its a right wing press word to make people sound lazy

rather a lot of people think why work because of poor pay, not protection, terrible hours, no chance of progression, etc etc etc

we need to get this government out and rejoin the EEA so we get freedom of movement