Joiner charging £15 for invoice

You misunderstand.

I wouldn't want to deal with anyone who talks and drives.

RTFT!

It was a small job.

Do you really expect someone to come out twice for a small job?

I've had estimates given on verbal descriptions and photographs for small jobs.

Also an acquaintance of the OP recommended the thug. The acquaintance and the OP clearly trust one another as the acquaintance paid the thug's bill, and was reimbursed by the OP.

Stop blaming the OP as it was a recommendation from someone she trusted who thought thug was a good tradie until he showed his true colours.

No, he quoted over the phone while he was driving somewhere else,

I wouldn't use anyone that did that. That should have been your first warning sign.

Just tell him you just spoke to the very helpful lady at HMRC who said it shouldn't cost any more for an invoice, he'll probably waive the charge.

Yep, I'd never use any form of tradesmen who offered 20% discount for cash "nudge nudge wink wink", it just shows them to be dishonest and I just want nothing to do with that. Enough tradesmen are dishonest/incompetent in other ways, so add in tax evasion and the risks are too high.

Indeed. You see it time and time again on threads about NRP dads working 'cash in hand' and significantly under-declaring their income to avoid paying their fair contribution for their kids' upbringing and needs.

Everybody is rightly furious about men who do this, but dissonantly, so many are also at least tacitly supportive of self-employed people who 'cook the books' and seriously underpay their fair taxes.

Are we really to believe that a lot of these men are deliberately withholding their taxes so that they can pass that money directly on for the benefit of their kids? Were we all born yesterday?

You could say exactly the same in favour of swiping stuff from Tesco, though: just stick it in your coat and run; it's much cheaper than paying for it.

Where do you draw the line?

Interesting that 32% of respondents have indicated that they would support a tax dodger. Everybody slates the wealthy that dodge tax but are happy when it is the local trader. Very hypocritical.

Years ago someone tried this on with my mum, they had a little chat and he asked what she did for a living and she told him she worked for the inland revenue ( which was true) . You should have seen his face.

Same. If they're happy to cheat HMRC, then they will also be happy to cheat you. Why would I employ someone who tells me that they are dishonest?

Oh well it's out of your hands

Next time though if you're uneasy then get them to email you their quote and you can see from that if they're registered etc etc

Honestly what planet are you on OP

Just pay the cash it's less

This happens all time only most people aren't awkward like you

He's unlikely to be registered.

I'm in London. Have been charged less than £55 for two small jobs done by a electrician and a plumber in the last year. On the other hand I needed a different electrical job done as an emergency and was charged more for nearly an hours work. (All jobs were done in the day.) Due to the type of businesses this second electrician works for he is VAT registered.

Plus, he's also defrauding HMRC even if he is registered for and legitimately charging VAT and declaring it, as he's still tucking an extra £4 away for his trouble!

But OP wasn't there when he did the work, so she couldn't have handed over the cash - any more than you can pay for an Amazon order in cash.

Yes, she could have left it there for him, but without her knowing him and knowing that he was trustworthy, he could have just taken the money and legged it or deliberately done a half-arsed job, knowing he'd got the money so there could be no come-back.

Also, it's true that OP is not the morality police, but it's not like she's an uninvolved passer-by. The only reason that this scheme continues so widely is because customers say "well, it's not my business if he pays his taxes or not", when they know full-well that he isn't.

Plus, as has been said a few times, he isn't just robbing the taxman, but potentially also his own children if he pays child maintenance based on a small percentage of his actual earnings. HMRC have procedures to protect their income, if people are trying to short-change them, but children are powerless.

But surely, if you do it the legitimate way and follow proper procedure - like your DP does - you can set the market prices that leave you with enough profit/living after all of your costs. £1/2m turnover certainly sounds like he and his colleagues are doing something right.

OP wasn't complaining about the cost; just his methods and (apparent) sharp practice.

I heartily disagree that people who aren't academic should be excluded from trades, as it's a great legitimate way for somebody with weaker scholastic strengths to earn an honest living, if they're otherwise skilled/able to learn in that way.

I've had a lot of invoices from tradespeople over the years that have had poor SPAG on them, but you could always tell what they meant. Personally, I wouldn't have made those SPAG mistakes; BUT I wouldn't have had the first clue how to do any of the skilled work that they were for. I'd much prefer to have Barry the skilled plumber who failed his GCSE English, rather than Oscar Wilde the rubbish plumber who does a massive botch job but gives me an invoice written in perfect, beautiful prose.

It’s also an excellent way for someone to skirt paying child maintenance

i am happy to pay at the end of a job. Most tradespeople I hire automatically hand me an invoice upon completion without even having to ask. Half the time they aren’t even hand written as they carry portable printers.

Well it should be £55 ex vat or £66 inc vat.

Look op I can see you're in the right morally, expecting him to pay his taxes.

But practically, you must see that the easiest way to make this all go away was to hand over the £55 cash at your earliest convenience. You knew he was shady, yet you got involved in a back and forth with him, which resulted in him threatening you. He knows where you live.

You should have just paid the £55 cash and avoided this problem. You aren't HMRC or the morality police, and by trying to be, you put yourself at risk.