DD has been removed

Yes. Absolutely. Tell OP that her daughter is violent and abusive, and using a disability as a cover because she knows her behaviour is wrong. Then encourage her to involve the police so that her disabled daughter becomes a statistic. One of the many people with mental health conditions who end up in prison BECAUSE THE RESOURCES FOR THE SUPPORT THEY NEED FOR THEIR DISABILITY JUST ISN’T THERE.

Apologies for shouting but this is getting very old. You’re advising the OP that she will receive support when there are no guarantees. Assisted living for kids with these kinds of problems is a remote possibility at best because they’re too difficult to deal with. If DD is removed from her home she’ll likely end up in a hostel or a B&B. That’s the reality. OP is in the process of assessment for DD and hasn’t yet received a diagnosis - when she does, hopefully there will be more understanding of what’s actually happening and more support forthcoming. Your post displays little to no understanding of ND.

Also, just to say if DD does go on to receive diagnoses I hope these bring comfort and understanding. These behaviours are not 'choices', but I appreciate they are very difficult to experience.

Mainstream services are rarely geared up to understand and support neurodiverse children with additional needs and their families. Situations are frequently complex and challenging and require knowledge and compassion in order to understand and support all parties.

I hope you get some better support going forward.

PS. The SEN boards here are full of experienced posters who help others parents navigate the system.

So, yet again, those with mental health conditions end up in prison because there is no other provision for helping them. Not hard to see how it happens is it - you’re advocating for it yourself. DD is 15 and has a mental health condition. She isn’t capable of regulating her behaviour because her cognitive function hasn’t developed to the point where she can recognise it as not socially acceptable. Children with these and other disabilities are not disposable at will and the notion of prison as an alternative to proper support is abhorrent.

Just read your last few exchanges and what stands out a mile is that the two posters with whom you are arguing clearly have either lived or professional experience of ND and a comprehensive understanding of the condition and its’ effects. What stands out even more is that you have neither.

A lot of posters who you describe as ‘minimising’ and ‘excusing’ DDs behaviour, are simply trying to convey that the behaviours displayed are as a result of a medical condition, and should not be compared with violent behaviour from neurotypical people. Which is what you are doing. ND conditions affect cognitive development, and in about quarter of sufferers it results in violent behaviour, because sufferers don’t have the developmental capacity to regulate that behaviour. It’s a disability and as has been pointed out numerous times it’s referred to as distressed behaviour to differentiate, not to excuse or minimise.

Everyone here who has lived experience of ND - whether in a professional capacity or living with an affected family member - will know that the resources needed to give everyone the support they need simply don’t exist - as with mental health provision across the board. Do you know, for example, how many people with mental health conditions end up in prison because the resources to help them cope with their condition just aren’t there ? Posting repeatedly from the pov of what should happen when you’ve been told repeatedly that the resources to support that don’t exist is bordering on offensive.

You accuse those calling you out on your pov of trying to close down debate. In actual fact posting from a position of ignorance is what closes down the debate, because people get tired of trying to clarify fact from prejudice borne from that ignorance.

The OP is in the process of assessment which will hopefully lead to a diagnosis for her DD. That in turn may mean she gets some additional support, depending on availability. It will hopefully also mean she can access information on the actual condition diagnosed so she has a better understanding of it, in order to help her DD. What she doesn’t need is people like you telling her that her daughter is violent and abusive and using disability as an excuse for bad behaviour. Which is essentially what you’re saying. It’s not just nonsense, it’s dangerous nonsense.

Yes- this was a point I made earlier-

While people like many posters on this thread continue to characterise these children (and disabled children in general) as something disposable, to be got rid of as soon as possible, or as bad people who are choosing to display their disability in an unpleasant way- this problem will never be resolved.

Why on God’s green earth would it ever become a priority for extra funding to support these children so that their parents aren’t dealing with this alone- when society makes it clear that they don’t give a shit about these kids?!

The government spends money on 2 things- things they can’t avoid (clearly they can avoid funding this), and things that win them votes (and clearly nobody gives a shit about these children so it won’t win votes). So, no funding.

One more time, the lack of specialist support for children/families is the problem. And discriminatory social attitudes and a lack of appropriate provision, which themselves contribute to the distress, frustration and victimisation ND young people experience.

And I have no idea why you think commenting on your prejudiced attitudes amounts to closing down debate? You have chosen to share your thinking and you have received a response.

Your ignorance and discriminatory attitudes continues to be exposed. 25% of autistic young people display violent behaviour which the convention is to describe as distressed behaviour in recognition that it reflects a lack of developmental capacity to behave more adaptively. Have a look at the National Autistic Society resources which I have attached. And yes, for a lot, but not all, of young people this resolves or is reduced in adulthood.

You will see the range of responses suggested by the National Autistic Society, including specialised support. Your sanctimonious 'calling-out' isn't one of them. The reason these behaviours exist is due to cognitive and sensory differences arising from neurodevelopmental conditions.

I imagine you don't live with this on a daily basis? Those of us who do could do without our children being exposed to your stigmatising and judgmental commentary, thank you. They are disabled children and not perpetrators.

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/distressed-behaviour

@FleurdeLiane your comment appears again to excuse abusive behaviour and you appear to be trying to close down debates with accusations of prejudice.

By not differentiating ND and abusive/controlling behaviour aren't you linking abusive behaviour and ND? I'm sure the majority of people who identify as ND are not and never will be violent.

Also I'm interested you rephrase what I call abuse as distressed behaviour. My point is the person who is on the receiving end of it is no less a victim of abuse and to suggest otherwise is to gaslight people

Also do you believe such behaviour stops at 18? Are you suggesting that if such behaviour continues a perpetrator will be excused criminal responsibility as an adult? If violent or abusive behaviour is not identified and called out before adulthood what changes in the future?

No, what is ridiculous and genuinely shocking is someone who clearly understands nothing about children and young people with additional needs, distressed behaviours and differences in developmental capacity should continue with their judgemental and misinformed opinion to people who clearly have professional expertise or lived experience.

What do you think a lack of developmental capacity is? Of course it is not the same as behaviour from an adult without additional needs. The prejudice you are displaying is quite something.

I know it's head ,bang wall
I'm the parent of a child with complex needs I know what's available and it ain't much I dont think any of us this position think it's great but or agree with it but that's the reality .

Yes- we post pointing out the reality of the situation and get jumped on as if we think it’s lovely for violence to happen.

Its stupid.

@Withinthesewalls is right though there is little help for parents
That's just a fact posters posting from a place of kindness but with limited understanding of how the system works doesnt help anyone
I know I always come across as negative on these types of threads because a lot of well meaning but uninformed posters post what they think should happen rather than the reality

I’ve posted about 10 times on this thread- go and read any of them.

What should happen, and what can happen are two different things.

There isn’t another child in this case.

there is nothing else that can be done and OP and other families should tolerate actual abuse, is that what you're saying?

What I've said is that parents in this position need to get legal advice asap and contact an advocate to help them navigate the system.

Both of these are available free/low cost from charities- although obviously it’s 100 times easier if you have money.

Everyone needs to campaign for greater funding for more, and better, services- because at the moment there is a gap in provision.

The social worker told her she had to take her daughter back because that is the legal position. The social worker would have been at risk of punishment for illegally accommodating a child if she had done anything else, even if she could find an emergency placement for a few more nights.

Instead of asking baiting questions what do you think should happen?

@Withinthesewalls so basically your point is to say that there is nothing else that can be done and OP and other families should tolerate actual abuse, is that what you're saying? I think like has happened here where OP received pressure from an SW to take their child back society is just emotionally blackmailing families to tolerate abuse. Abuse by children to parents/other children needs to become as unacceptable as other forms of domestic abuse not minimised or excused because otherwise where does it end?

Right, and when the police arrived (if they arrive, which they don’t always in these situations- especially if it happens a lot), what do you think should happen then?

@Withinthesewalls as has been suggested previously where behaviour causes fear of or actual violence police should be called. Local authorities benefit from families accepting abuse because they don't want their family member to potentially get a criminal record or families are shamed into keeping quiet by the attitudes expressed here that they should tolerate it.

So what should happen then? There is a ‘gap in support’ as you put it, so what do you think should happen?

@Withinthesewalls I think people on threads like this should stop minimising behaviour such as the Op's daughter is demonstrating because of a potential diagnosis as if that makes the behaviour less abusive.

The gap in support should not be met at the expense of families tolerating abuse.

There should be more support from the local authority but in the absence of this, the expectation should not be that parents tolerate situations like this.

So, what do you suppose should happen?

Couldn’t agree more