Spending downsizing cash

Reading isn’t your strong suit is it?

🤣🤣🤣 bollocks

What a grasping peron you seem to be, clearly wanting your Ma to leave all to you in her will. Good for her let her enjoy HER money. You will probably inherit her home.

My perspective comes from my parents’ lives; they lived to be 97 and 99. They were both very healthy almost to the end and only needed professional care for the last 18 months. Dad was in a care home for five weeks, Mum for seven months, they had care at home for about a year.

He was a saver and held the purse strings. They had some holidays but he wouldn’t spend anything on the house. The kitchen was literally falling to bits, the bathroom was avocado with a cracked basin, the carpets were swirly 1970s jobs - you get the picture. When he died I discovered he had a jaw dropping amount of money invested.

I spent some of it on refurbishing the house in order to sell it. New windows, external doors, kitchen, bathroom, redecorated and recarpeted throughout. When it was ready to go on the market I sat in that house and cried. My mum would have loved the changes I made and never saw them, with all that money in the bank.

That’s why I believe in enjoying money.

FWIW…

But the overwhelming view on here is live for the day and let your family or the state provide for any extreme care needs.

I’d take this with a grain of salt.

Is this advice coming from people who have first hand knowledge of the realities of late in life care? Are they people who don’t have have a pot to piss in today? Are they people who believe the good lord/Karma/or tooth fairy will provide?

I feel like sometimes it’s a moral failing here to plan for the future and dare I say it use your means to better your situation.

I’m by no means a miser who sleeps on a mattress of money while eating gruel and acorns for my meals. (The opposite really… I spend probably too much on travel at the moment) But I have seen people who haven’t had options and living in places that you wouldn’t wish on your worst enemy.

Talk to her and ask her what her plans are…help her with resources so she can make informed decisions about her now spending and her future care spending

Yep. And if she’s competent it’s entirely her decision whether to “fritter” her money away.

stepping in and controlling what a competent adult spends out of their own money is financial abuse. Even if you think you are doing it for their benefit.

as long as their bills are paid anything else is their decision to fritter or not.

if your dh said to you oh you can’t fritter all your money on shoes, clothes and holidays any more, you need to save for your future. What would your response be?

However it's not fine to keep frittering a limited pot of money away on nonsense, if it's going to leave her in a difficult position later on.

She can fritter whatever she wants away on having a decent life. No one knows the future and to not have a life for 20yrs 'just in case' is nonsense. She will have a property to sell should she need to and pension/attendance allowance to live on. That's a perfectly normal scenario.

She might never need care, she might need it for the next 10yrs, or she could die next week. No one can, or should be living their life based on 'what if' scenarios.

My godparents spent a lot of money on their house when they retired and had access to lump sums, their thinking on it was that they wouldn't need to do anything more to the house in their lifetime and they could enjoy their retirement in the house exactly the way they wanted it, so I don't think the fact that half the money has gone necessarily sets a trend for future spending.

But I do think you should try and enjoy the time you have with your mum while she's can, without worrying too much about the future, it's hard because of the experiences you've already had, but she may never need a care home so if she's still got the value of a property behind her I wouldn't worry about the surplus amount that she has for now.

My mum died fairly suddenly in her early sixties and she'd worked so hard as a single parent for many years for us, scrimping and saving with a plan to sell her house and enjoy the money her hard work had built.. in the end, her house sale completed around 3 months prior to her death but she was too ill to enjoy it at that point.

That's not true - if they are assessed as needing care it's gets paid for if after means testing they have less than the minimum threshold, Now , if you are saying that they've not assessed or have assessed and say no care needed and the family are saying well yes she does and paying privately then that's different.

If she depletes all her savings she still has an asset in her flat, she will also be entitled to attendance allowance and presumably she has a pension. She doesn't have to do without so she has more.

You’re right. The unusual spending referred to in the link is converting money into high value assets like diamonds and if you’ve always had numerous holidays it’s not unusual spending, it’s entirely normal for you.

Well you said holidays were deprivation of assets. What age does that kick in?

Just to be clear I think you are wrong, I think we are allowed holidays however old we are.

I’m sure it’s unlikely but how does the OP know she’ll be in a position to care for her mum. Let’s be honest all of have a chance (albeit small) of getting hit by a bus.

(Sorry @CueilleLeJour don’t mean to be a ghoul… I’m sure you’ll live a long and happy life 😉just pointing out that hope isn’t a plan)

My great nan was very well-off - until she needed a care home. Then all that money that had been scrimped and saved for decades was spent in it's entirety on care homes. my nan then had to get loans out to cover the fees when all that money ran out. She lived a frugal existence only for her to get Alzeihmers and not remember the final decade of life. Let your mum have fun, the government's only going to rinse what they can from her money when she goes.

@CueilleLeJour FWIW you seem to be very reasonable and have an appropriate level of concern.

The truth is nobody knows what will happen in regards to the last years of life. My philosophy as I get older is to have funds so that I can have choices.

My stepfather had no money or assets when he needed to move into assisted living. He got damn lucky and landed in a good place. But there are also places that truly horrific.

I’m just not comfortable leaving my end of life care up to the government and luck.

Your could care foe her when the time comes especially at that age. Problem solved.
I am sure your will inherit from her so why not look after her.

I feel like it's fair enough to get the flat how she wanted it and to have a nice "holiday of a lifetime".
However it's not fine to keep frittering a limited pot of money away on nonsense, if it's going to leave her in a difficult position later on.

£150k is not much for a care home. And lots of people never use a care home. At 87 I am going to make the most of every day, not worry about a future that may never come.

We looked at many different care homes for both FiL and my DM, and TBH the most expensive ones did not by any means strike us as the best. In particular I was usually under the impression that ‘smart’, ‘Homes and Gardens’ decor was there to impress the relatives who were choosing. (As we were, both DM and FiL having dementia.). IMO cosy and homely - with cheerful, friendly staff, were far more important, even if decor was a wee bit shabby round the edges.

The homes we eventually chose for both were excellent, and certainly not the most expensive. At both, self funders and LA funded received exactly the same care and accommodation. Admittedly the self funders were subsidising the others, but so be it. IMO it’s something of a ‘luxury’ to be able to self fund - you can choose the time and place, rather than having to depend on almost invariably hard-pressed social services.

Actually no, they don't have to pay the shortfall. There's a cap on what they'll pay - it's quite high, around £4K a month for the LA where my grandma is, but they absolutely won't go higher. The alternative if you can't pay the shortfall is to find alternative (and cheaper) arrangements. There are cheaper care homes available but who is seriously going to move a 100-year-old woman from the place that's been her home for years?

The local authority has to pay. If the family put their foot down as they’re absolutely entitled to the council would have to discharge its responsibility. It’s a disgrace that it’s behaving like this. Anyone’s money would be gone by the time they’re 100 - colour coordinated pans or not.

A good opportunity for you to have a chat with her about her wishes should she become unable to look after herself at home.

But she's 87, she can spend it as she wishes. If necessary for residential care the flat will be sold.

Families are not responsible for paying care home fees for anyone except themselves. Children are not responsible for their parents finances.

If a person needs a care home the value of their property and any savings will be taken into account for their own contribution. If no one else lives in the house it will expected to be be sold and used toward care fees. If there is a spouse or another tenant the home will not form part of the care home assessment process.

Life is for living. What someone has left in assets at the time they need them will be taken into account. An 87yr old making her life and home more comfortable would not be seen as depriving assets.

Anyone who has over the limit in savings (approx £23k) will be expected to pay all, or a proportion of care fees.