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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be upset with partner over this?

283 replies

upsetandangrywithhim · 21/02/2024 09:26

Partner is adamant he doesn't want another baby (for context we have a 2 year old). I'd love another. We are on different pages about this.

However, I am not on any form of contraception because hormonal contraceptives cause awful side effects for me and I've never found one that suited. So after the birth of our child I wanted a break from the pill, and partner was on board with this saying we'd use condoms. However, over the past 12 months alone he has had unprotected sex with me on 18 occasions (the rest being with a condom). I know this because I use an app to track my periods and you can record sex and whether protected or not (presumably to track and date any pregnancies). So he is obviously really lax about this, despite saying he's adamant it's a no.

I've raised the conversation again this past week about his thoughts on another baby, and he says the same "absolutely not". I point out to him the contradiction in his actions and his words. His defence is "I always ask you what point you're at in your cycle so I make sure the timing makes it unlikely" and "I pull out sometimes so it's fine". I asked him if he understood that he's giving me mixed messages by saying one thing and doing another? He said "I have no explanation for that other than I prefer sex without a condom because it feels better". I said OK but you surely then accept the risk that comes with? He just shrugged, repeating he was reassured by the point I was at in my cycle.

OK, he may have a point, in that we've had unprotected sex at "safer" points in my cycle 18 times over the past 12 months and I'm not pregnant. But, there is some risk still, and if he's so adamant he's against having another baby, why would he take that risk even if it was a tiny one?? He can't answer this.

He then deflected onto me and said "you're happy to take that risk too". Well yes, because I'm not horrified at the thought of another baby or massively opposed to it, as you say you are? If I were, I'd not be letting you anywhere near me without a condom.

My head is a mess, and I feel he's confused and upset me a lot with this.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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SlumberDearMaid · 25/02/2024 18:11

Well, clearly there very much were mixed messages on his part, since it’s emerged he’s not as against another child as he originally thought - demonstrated by the fact that he wasn’t that bothered about using contraception. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Knackered41 · 25/02/2024 16:41

I don't think there is any 'mixed' messages.
He's honestly told you that he doesn't want another child. Again, it's also true that condoms feel rubbish.
Just because you've told him the risk (of getting pregnant) is there, doesn't mean he wants to alter his behaviour.
You're over thinking this, pretty sure he isn't.

CJsGoldfish · 23/02/2024 22:03

OP is not his fucking mother, fgs. He's a grown adult. He can make his own choices about what to do with his own penis, and work out what the consequences might be
Absolutely. I have the often unpopular opinion that the man ALWAYS has the final say about pregnancy. If they do not use protection, they can't complain

Jesus, why is the bar for men always so damn low?
But it is not always about the bar being low. It's more about how someone would actually choose this FOR their child. That THIS man is what the child deserves as a parent with a lifelong connection for both mother and child. We can't throw that line out but not ask about women who choose for their child to have a father that did not want them. Yes, he may not prevent it and he cannot moan about it later, but that doesn't change FOR THE CHILD that they were not wanted and had a twat chosen FOR them because someone was actually NOT thinking about the child 🤷‍♀️

upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 18:11

@SlumberDearMaid
Exactly. Such a bizarre statement because we are both adults having unprotected sex, so for whom would I be "feigning shock and surprise"??Confused

OP posts:
SlumberDearMaid · 22/02/2024 17:58

But she is complicit and will no doubt feign shock and surprise when she falls pregnant.

To be fair, tbis is such an odd comment.

Why would the OP ‘feign shock and surprise’ when they have both been knowingly and willingly having unprotected sex……?

upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 17:48

@SpeedyDrama
Thank you! Thought it was just me for a second there, but Jesus. No need at all for those replies was there.

OP posts:
upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 17:47

To be clear, I'm not invested in you. You are a faceless internet stranger.

Yup, a faceless internet stranger on who's thread you seem to go on.... and on..... and on.... and on......

Nope I see your point, you're not remotely invested are you? 😂

OP posts:
SpeedyDrama · 22/02/2024 17:47

fusspot25 · 22/02/2024 17:35

Oh dear, you really do think highly of yourself don't you? The only person embarrassing themselves here is you, both for your situation and your responses.

To be clear, I'm not invested in you. You are a faceless internet stranger. But you asked for advice and I think that you're wrong. I have a sneaking suspicion you don't like hearing that though. Or the word 'no'. Oops there's that narrative again.

Anyway just for the avoidance of any doubt about my creepy investment, I'll step back now and wish you well for the future. I think you may need it.

You can disagree with someone without being a complete arse about it. Fair enough you think the op is wrong (though it is still not her responsibility to stop a pregnancy her partner doesn’t want, a concern for a potential child is not invalid). But you’ve completely crossed the line of badgering the op on this thread and now being rude and quite frankly aggressive in your replies. The time to step away was when you were clearly getting incredibly aggravated by a child who doesn’t exist and is very unlikely to considering the circumstances.

upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 17:46

Oh dear, you really do think highly of yourself don't you? The only person embarrassing themselves here is you, both for your situation and your responses.

😂😂😂😂😂🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

Hahaha fuck me. Erm, ok??? Thank you??

Gets weirder and weirder by the day in here ......

OP posts:
fusspot25 · 22/02/2024 17:35

upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 17:27

@fusspot25

No - absolutely fuck all to do with "what I don't want to hear". You literally invented a narrative when you said "she will no doubt feign shock and surprise". So YOU get over YOURself with that bollocks, and if you can't be constructive without inventing things, kindly do one, because many other people have managed to be constructive even if they've disagreed with me.

And the other poster also invented a narrative- they implied I had "put pressure on" my partner to have a baby - there is not ONE indication of that anywhere on this thread. Hence, an invented narrative.

You are far too invested in my personal life now, it's actually becoming slightly creepy and embarrassing (for you).

Oh dear, you really do think highly of yourself don't you? The only person embarrassing themselves here is you, both for your situation and your responses.

To be clear, I'm not invested in you. You are a faceless internet stranger. But you asked for advice and I think that you're wrong. I have a sneaking suspicion you don't like hearing that though. Or the word 'no'. Oops there's that narrative again.

Anyway just for the avoidance of any doubt about my creepy investment, I'll step back now and wish you well for the future. I think you may need it.

upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 17:27

@fusspot25

No - absolutely fuck all to do with "what I don't want to hear". You literally invented a narrative when you said "she will no doubt feign shock and surprise". So YOU get over YOURself with that bollocks, and if you can't be constructive without inventing things, kindly do one, because many other people have managed to be constructive even if they've disagreed with me.

And the other poster also invented a narrative- they implied I had "put pressure on" my partner to have a baby - there is not ONE indication of that anywhere on this thread. Hence, an invented narrative.

You are far too invested in my personal life now, it's actually becoming slightly creepy and embarrassing (for you).

OP posts:
fusspot25 · 22/02/2024 17:08

Ahh I see, the replies that disagree with what you're doing are all 'weird narrative' but the ones sympathising and agreeing with you are perfectly valid. Gotcha.

Look, nobody is 'invested' in you and this sham. Get over yourself. You posted on a public forum for advice and because you haven't been unanimously told it's fine you're now being insulting.

Your initial question was 'am I right to be annoyed at the mixed messages' and I still maintain that the fact you've literally been told he doesn't want a baby means it isn't mixed messages. His actions are perfectly selfish and gratuitous. You are choosing to read more into it because it's what you want.

The wider message that you don't seem to understand or want to hear is that a baby will be brought into this who isn't wanted by its father. Maybe he'll come around, maybe he'll learn to love it. But as it stands right now he's told you he doesn't want it. To me that's not the same as accidentally falling pregnant or finding yourself as a single parent as a result of circumstance. It's a choice. And my opinion is that it's feckless of both of you (him more but you too for being complicit).

I'm sorry that this isn't what you want to hear.

upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 15:42

Cherry8809 · 22/02/2024 12:50

Why is it so hard to accept what he’s literally telling you - he doesn’t want another child!

He's also said he wouldn’t leave you or force you to terminate, because he’s obviously a respectful person….but that doesn’t mean he WANTS one, and it’s wrong of you to keep pressuring him into it.

Ah ha! Another invented narrative! 😀👏🏻

Please do spell out EXACTLY, in detail, your evidence that I've been "putting pressure on him".

I'll wait.

🤔

OP posts:
upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 15:41

fusspot25 · 22/02/2024 13:00

@MsRosley when the consequences could affect the entire family I would argue OP has a responsibility too. He is a twat, no doubt about that. But she is complicit and will no doubt feign shock and surprise when she falls pregnant.

😂😂

"Will no doubt feign shock and surprise"

Wtf is wrong with you? Take your invented narrative elsewhere would you?

When / if I do conceive, I will just behave like, you know, a normal almost 40 year old woman who's been having regular unprotected sex and is now pregnant, ie. Pleasantly surprised since the odds are somewhat against me with my age, but happy.

Sorry if that doesn't suit the weird narrative you're intent on pushing on my thread, for some bizarre reason. 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 15:37

@Pintally
That's a really accurate and fair summary, thanks for that.

OP posts:
upsetandangrywithhim · 22/02/2024 15:35

@Creatureofhabit87
I've explained why I allowed this to continue for the past 12 months. Because I had (wrongly) assumed his lax approach to use of contraception indicated a shift in his attitude towards having another baby. I therefore (wrongly) assumed he'd shifted to be more on the same page as me, ie "if it happens it happens".

He denied this initially when I asked him, hence my initial post on here. I then discussed it again with him yesterday(as per my update), and he said on reflection maybe he was more in the "well if it happens it happens" camp than he realised.

So that's where we are at currently.

OP posts:
Creatureofhabit87 · 22/02/2024 14:51

MsRosley · 22/02/2024 12:21

OP is not his fucking mother, fgs. He's a grown adult. He can make his own choices about what to do with his own penis, and work out what the consequences might be.

Jesus, why is the bar for men always so damn low?

Ok maybe I didn’t word it correctly. He’s a dick for not wearing a condom, not sure why she’s still with someone who doesn’t want to wear one but also doesn’t want a baby but I’m saying she also has to stop and say “no condom no sex!” Why risk a potential unwanted (by him) pregnancy?!

Pintally · 22/02/2024 13:53

upsetandangrywithhim · 21/02/2024 17:42

Thought I would update after the conversation I've just had with him.

He is now saying that, on reflection, he clearly cannot feel as strongly about this as he initially thought, and that maybe he's more in the "if it happens it happens" camp than he'd realised, because as I've "rightly pointed out" (his words), he's been very lax about contraception. He also apologised for the mixed messages.

He said that whilst he doesn't actively want a baby, if I were to become pregnant, so be it, and we'd make it work. He assured me he would stand by me and support me and love the baby no differently to our existing child.

I said it may all be a moot point anyway as at my age I may struggle to fall pregnant at all, even with accurate timing. He said (exact quote): "you never know, you might fall pregnant more easily than you think".

That was the end of the conversation.

So it seems he has reflected on his initial stance and revised it somewhat, saying perhaps he wasn't as strongly opposed as he originally claimed to be, and therefore he'd support me if I became pregnant but he's not actively wanting to hoping for that outcome.

I'm not sure if I'm any further forward?

I think you are further forward. You have an exact answer.

The man doesn’t want a baby, he’s made that very clear. However, liken it to your own scenario earlier, where you said that if you became pregnant and he said “terminate or I’m leaving” your next best choice is to go along with it and be a single parent.

He’s saying that in the same situation, with a choice of leave and be single, or stay and have to be a dad to another baby, his lesser of the evils is to stay.

So, you:

top option: have baby as a family
second option: have baby as a single mum
third option: no further babies

Him:

top option: no further babies
second option: have baby as a family
third option: leave you as a single mum

I think it’s really clear.

Just to add, though, the contraception is his problem, not yours. You’ve been more than clear with him about your current fertility.

Beezknees · 22/02/2024 13:00

MsRosley · 22/02/2024 12:21

OP is not his fucking mother, fgs. He's a grown adult. He can make his own choices about what to do with his own penis, and work out what the consequences might be.

Jesus, why is the bar for men always so damn low?

But OP will have to deal with the consequences too. This isn't something trivial, it's potentially bringing an unwanted child into the world.

fusspot25 · 22/02/2024 13:00

@MsRosley when the consequences could affect the entire family I would argue OP has a responsibility too. He is a twat, no doubt about that. But she is complicit and will no doubt feign shock and surprise when she falls pregnant.

Cherry8809 · 22/02/2024 12:50

Why is it so hard to accept what he’s literally telling you - he doesn’t want another child!

He's also said he wouldn’t leave you or force you to terminate, because he’s obviously a respectful person….but that doesn’t mean he WANTS one, and it’s wrong of you to keep pressuring him into it.

MsRosley · 22/02/2024 12:21

Creatureofhabit87 · 21/02/2024 16:18

It’s both of their responsibilities but she is allowing him to do it when she knows he doesn’t want a baby! If you insist at the point of the penis entering then surely problem solved?!

OP is not his fucking mother, fgs. He's a grown adult. He can make his own choices about what to do with his own penis, and work out what the consequences might be.

Jesus, why is the bar for men always so damn low?

fritaskeeter · 22/02/2024 07:09

EnterFunnyNameHere · 21/02/2024 18:52

But in my opinion, whilst it's not ideal, a child's needs can be fully met by having one parent who wants them desperately and loves them dearly. Is it preferred? No, I'd say two parents on board is better! But do I think all the kids out there who, for whatever reason, only have one loving involved parent are not having their needs met? No, I do not.

For me, it's a bit like saying that someone with an inherited illness would be irresponsible to have children because the child could end up disadvantaged if they also inherit the illness. Yes, it's not necessarily going to end up in the most perfect idealised situation, but does that mean the child is better off not existing at all? Not for me, no.

How about women who have kids through sperms donation? Are they inherently irresponsible because the child won't even have a father?

This child would have a father who actively would prefer that they didn't exist.

That's not quite the same thing as being a single mother by choice or having a very wanted child with an inherited illness.

Actively deciding to bring a child into the world when you know its father does not want it is cruel.

fritaskeeter · 22/02/2024 07:03

SpeedyDrama · 21/02/2024 17:44

The ‘child’ is imaginary and unlikely to come to be. There is a possibility of a baby, but that possibility (as minimal as it is) completely falls on the man in this scenario. He doesn’t want a baby and yet is not only not taking active care for it not to happen, he’s taking active action for it to happen. Therefore it is completely on him. The op has already been clear and honest with him, that’s her doing her bit in this. It’s up to him how to move forward with the information given to him, and he’s decided to play roulette in order to have a few minutes of unprotected sex.

I feel you’re one of these people who thinks it’s a woman’s job to make up for men’s shortcomings and feckless behaviours. What do you suggest the op do to rectify the situation? Because the options are take medication that doesn’t agree with her, have a serious and very likely irreversible sterilisation or not have sex with her partner.

The idea of apportioning blame for bringing a child into the world is ridiculous. This is a child's life you are talking about. Making a child is not something you do and then say 'Oh well, it was his fault'.

They both have the responsibility and the power to not bring a child into the world who will be unwanted by its father.

What do you suggest the op do to rectify the situation?
If you don't want a child, you use contraception or you don't have sex. It's not complicated, and again, it is completely within OP's control to make that choice.

(Or better, perhaps, leave this idiot!)

HollyKnight · 21/02/2024 22:53

You're not on the same page, though. He still doesn't want another child. He doesn't have the urge or a desire for another like you do. He's apathetic and uninterested. If you go ahead and have another, it will be because you (just you) want one.