To think that ow genuinely fall for the lies their men spin?

And yet barely anyone on here does.

Facts.

It's easy to blame the men

And yet barely anyone on here does.

I think the op is venting about an ow in her own life.

Why Ow's are eager to believe the bullshit is the exact same reason why countless women choose to marry and procreate with absolute wasters. We are desperate. We need to be in a relationship no matter what. There's the OW who is happy to stay in the background because the casual thing works for them but they are rare.
I know its not the done thing to say it out loud but it's true. We cling on to losers, accept crumbs and we are guilty sticking our fingers in our ears when they tell us who they are.
It's easy to blame the men, it absolves us of any responsibility. Societal pressure for women to get married and have children encourages us ignore red flags, a man being married is one of them!
You get the posters who blindly defend an OW, its all the man's fault and accuse others of misogyny who feel anger towards these women and yes i agree, the person who made the marriage vows is ultimately responsible, but my God, as women we need to set our standards higher. I would never cause such pain to another woman, ever. I wish more women felt like that. But then there's that desperation. It makes us put up with and believe all sorts of shite.
I say that word alot because the older I get the more I see just what we will tolerate to be in a relationship, any relationship. It's sad and it's only us that can change it.

I think cheating men often cast a wide net. I had an old school friend send me a message. His SM showed he was married but his message clearly showed he lacked boundaries and was hoping for ego boosting texts at least.

It just showed me he has very poor characteristics and I blocked him without replying. I hadn’t seen him in 20 years prior to the message - so I can only presume this is what he does to many women. Someone may fall for it. I am not special, he just tried his luck. I was probably one of a few that week.

I’ve worked with mainly men all my working career and this helps you see what nonsense some are prepared to come out with. I see married men who cheat as people with very poor character traits. Dishonest, lack of integrity, needs an ego boost, Poor self control, selfish, lacks boundaries, promises and their own words mean nothing to these men. No one forced them to marry or remain married. There was no gun to their head when they promised loyalty and to be faithful even in bad times. Why bother- if shagging about and not have responsibility is your thing that is okay - own it. Just don’t pretend you believe in monogamy when you don’t.

If their own words mean nothing to them then I have no interest in the words they say to me. So I do think they are poor quality men because they have poor character traits. They may be funny or good looking but the traits are also important. Life can be difficult so the traits are very important. I’d say the same about cheating women but I didn’t encounter as many. The one i encountered who was openly in a long term affair I do also question her integrity, honesty etc. She said wasn’t prepared to leave her husband as it would devastate him. I guess the 10 year plus affair might really be what devastates him. His marriage was blown up the minute she overstepped what she promised. He just didn’t know it yet. It’s not a great look for men or women. Skulking about.

The married cheats are certainly not men I would have flirted with or dated. I am not being anyones dirty secret!

If I was dating I wouldn’t entertain anyone who had cheated in their marriage. Same as I wouldn’t entertain someone who drink drives. Or who tells me he has ‘a crazy ex’. Or who doesn’t see his children regularly or expects their mum to provide all their clothing and do the proper parenting. Or who doesn’t pay maintenance.

I think some women date cheaters because it makes them feel special. Others because they don’t want anything serious and this works for them as he is disposable. Others must fall for the lines. Some are tricked into thinking he is single - I feel awful for those women.

I have been hit on by (far too many) married men and I just think they are gross and cheap and grim. It also affects how I think of them going forward. If they are prepared to deceive and lie to their loved ones why do they suddenly become honest and reliable at work or as a friend? Life is busy and time is limited I would prefer to spend time on people who’s values are more closely aligned to mine. Not waste it with a known liar.

As to why women or men stay - that’s probably for another thread. But I’m not sure why anyone would say they are low value. Cheating causes PTSD and trauma. I have friends who were cheated on, great women, strong, reliable and honest. Some stayed, some didn’t - I don’t question their values on loyalty and honesty though. I don’t judge her for choosing a man who had poor integrity and then trying to reconcile or divorce - both are valid choices. Her capacity to show grace and reconcile doesn’t mean she is low value - far from it. In my opinion Grace and forgiveness are admirable qualities in a person. I’m happy to have women or men like that in my life.

I do judge the husband who decided his wife deserved to lack agency and not have full transparency regarding her sexual health. Assuming the OW knows he is married then the OW knows he is sleeping around so she is making an informed choice about her std risk. His wife isn’t.

What a vile thread.

Newsflash, just as many women have affairs as men, but how nice that the OP and so many others have started a thread which focuses solely on the OW rather than the man she’s cheating with.

Woman bashing isn’t a redeemable quality.

Especially when it’s supposedly being done by other women.

Take a long hard look at yourselves, because you ain’t so glamorous either.

I think labelling the woman as having low self esteem, standards, a harlot, insert angry insult here is an easy way of releasing anger at other women, or the situation. I think it says far more about the person uttering them, than people involved in affairs.

Sure, low self esteem could sometimes be the case. Sometimes the OW or OM doesn't mean to fall in love, it just happens, and sometimes the OW just doesn't want the hassle or expectations of a committed relationship. Certainly I can understand why some women have the logic that with a married man, you are only getting the best version of him (minus the cheating, of course) without all the hassle of having to pick his socks up off the floor, cook him dinner, tell him the dog needs taking for a walk etc. Like it or lump it, a lot of men treat their mistresses extremely well. The men know full well if they don't, the OW will be gone on to the next one, unlike their long-suffering wife who keeps putting up with his nonsense.

Of course there are situations where the married man treats his OW like crap also - that's usually where love is involved.

I don't think women in general are stupid. Capable of behaving stupid, yes. But on the whole, I find other women to be very clever, and likely seeing through the shit that the wife can't, or refuses to see.

It's not always as cut and dry as the woman being a helpless wallflower and being used for sex. Some men are indeed predatory. I imagine the wife rarely, if ever comes up, unless love is involved?

I agree with @waterdusky and I have read all your replies thank you. I'm still able to have a different view to you.

1 women have affairs too and shatter families. This thread is utterly focused on men having affairs.

2 I'm capable of acknowledging that even if someone makes a poor decision at one part of their lives this doesn't equal they are vile, low value, poor quality. It means they made a poor choice. To me what counts is how they deal with it after.

3 my mother had an affair when married with 3 children. She left my dad for the OM. Whom was 12 years younger than her. Not married and no kids. 36 years later he stood sobbing on my and my sisters shoulder as we buried my mother. No having an affair was not the quality choice but they did go on to live.productive and sensible lives despite their start being rocky. My mother was not a bad poor quality low life. She made a poor choice and managed the consequences the best way she could after to be with the man who was the love of her life. The man my children call grandad. (They also call my father this)

So no I don't think it's this simple that being the ow/om = you are bad.. life is rarely black and white.

Too much of a sweeping generalisation OP. Like there are many reasons for people having an affair i the first place.

There is a special place in hell for those men and women who have affairs with family friends - the devastation that causes to so many people, divided loyalties and broken friendship/support circles - is a true level of narcissitic malevolence.

COI: the above is what happened to me. She wanted our lifestyle and thought EX supplied the financial aspect. She now realises that our comfortable life was provided by two "working adults who contributed equally. Once she figured that out, she made his life hell and he left her aswell!

This thread is the absolute pits of the earth. Women described as unattractive and plump? Low quality? Not the brightest? On heat? Goldiggers? Whilst at the same time calling for women to look out for each other, citing womanhood and sisterhood at the same time as spewing out these vile comments.
Nothing in this life is black and white. There are a million and one reasons why people have affairs. And before someone comes along saying 'ooh touched a nerve have we?' no I am not and I never have had an affair. However my mother did and I completely and utterly understand why she did it. I can see myself going down the same path in her situation.
I can never understand how people can see shades of colour and nuance in the huge range of life experiences that we all inevitably go through, but never this one. In MN land at least.

The OW is most likely not thinking of his wife and children, as she’s too busy thinking with her heart and groin. The same things that had his wife in a flutter when he was chasing her.

And if you spend enough time on MN, dating sites or other SM, you will soon find there’s no more single a man than the married man. He is everywhere and so available, she may not know for some time that he’s married.

What about the women who stay with cheaters after they’ve been caught? They’ve arguably been lied to more. Why is that somehow more ‘acceptable’ and doesn’t make them ‘low value’.?

Who is to assume the OW or OM is not in a relatioship themselves? it is not always one single and one married/partnered, sometimes it is of a same sex affair

I mean a general 'who'

Very few women could actually be stupid enough believe these lies. What they are doing when they spout the “he and his wife are just like roommates” rubbish he fed her, is creating a socially acceptable get out clause for their moral failing. Exactly the same energy as when late 20 somethings still living with their parents claim they are “saving for a house”

Fucking hell OP, what century am I in? (And I'm old)

This!
I can’t actually believe I’m reading some of these disgusting comments. Have I somehow travelled back in time to the 50s?
50% of marriages end in divorce. In the majority of cases the catalyst is one spouse at least having their head turned. Very few people just leave a marriage without somewhere to go to. Human behaviour is complex and you cannot make such a simplistic assumption about everyone who falls into that category. I really hope I don’t know anyone who has such awful misogynistic views in real life!
DP has a friend who was married for years and was clearly very unhappy. They clearly didn’t get on and he stayed until the DC were adults. He did have an affair but only after making a massive effort to improve the situation, going to relate etc.They were living separate lives for the last few years, barely communicated and he had counselling to cope with the guilt he was feeling. We advised him to leave as the situation was toxic. When he left, he was honest about the affair and paid every bill until the house was sold. The ex immediately tried to turn everyone against him despite admitting that she was also deeply unhappy in the marriage. She cut off anyone who refused to shun her ex. She is a complete narcissist who has turned the DC against him, posts embarrassing bitter passive aggressive posts about him online including outright lies. This is still happening 5 years later. We’ve all seen a huge improvement in his mental health and happiness since he got out of the situation. Despite the ex W’s behaviour, he never says a bad word about her. I know which one I think is the better person…

Yes they do

I was the OW. He never bad mouthed his wife or lied to me. I knew what was going on. We didn't physically see each other very often but we had frequent contact via phone and Internet. He eventually divorced and we have been happy together for the last 10 years. There are no trust issues, we are very open with each other. Why did we do it? We were in love. It isn't anything to to be proud of and it would have been better to have divorced first, but that is not how it worked out. We were in our 30's so not young and naive when it started.

I know, when I was single I was so wary on dating app as I know heaps of the over 30s on them are married. I’d have been horrified if I even accidentally dated a married man.

I think the onus is mainly on the married person but if you’re part of the affair it’s not a great look for you either. It’s also a slippery slope, it may start with lowering your morals to accepting your role as the OW or OM when you don’t know the persons spouse. However from what I’ve witnessed once someone’s morals has dipped to that level, it becomes more likely they’ll slip even further and venture in the murky realm of getting involved with their married friend or the partner of their friend.

In my 20s I did a big springclean of my social circle after a string of drama and heartbreak in one friendship group, the last incident being when one friend (who unsurprisingly is used to sleep with married men) ended up sleeping with my other friends boyfriend which put me in a tricky situation and caused absolute chaos.

At the same time I got rid of my male friends who were serial cheats or abusive.

To me they’re all indicators of a selfish character lacking in empathy. I decided those aren’t the sort of men & women I wanted to have in my inner circle and my life is so much better for it.

I think there's no difference between men and women with affairs. Some of them actively want a married affair partner as its safer for them because the boundaries are always there to whatever degree. Some are fed a story of being in a loveless relationship, only there for the kids etc. Some have low self esteem and are flattered by a married person seemingly preferring them to their spouse. Some just like the thrill. Some genuinely and wholeheartedly fall for them. Some don't know.

It isn't a black and white world, and nor is it likely to be a black and white scenario. But what I really disagree with from the tone of your voice is the scorn towards the other woman, given the man is the one who is married and thus has an obligation not to have affairs. Likewise when the roles are reversed.

Right!? I can't believe some of the responses here. When I was cheated on, I blamed both parties, because she knew my ex was with me (not married, but still in a serious relationship) I would myself never ever either cheat or help anyone else to do so. I think that it is scummy, despicable behaviour. I once pulled the plug on a new relationship because I was suspicious that he was not single.

Some OW do fall for the lies, others go in eyes open. People are different.

If there's one thing I've learned through life though it's stray a surprising number of people have affairs who have previously expressed how appalled they are by affairs, judge others for having them and swear they'd never do it. It's made me realise that opportunity and coinciding sexual attraction have a lot more influence over these things than a lot of us like to think. You also need the self awareness and maturity to realise when your ego is enjoying being around someone and start careful monitoring and maybe even putting distance between you at that early stage. Some people are shits and actively look for affairs; most fall into them because they didn't recognise the danger signs and stop then.

Men and women are just as capable of having affairs. Traditionally men have had more opportunities as women often had children in tow etc, but that's not the case so much now.

You think calling someone poor quality is a horrible attitude but shagging someone who is married is normal?!

Bloody hell. That's some fucked up moral compass right there.

I think some of them are very competitive with the wife and want to believe his flattery/seduction. And, to be fair, I think a lot of those men really do believe what they are saying, in their enthusiasm/fog/midlife crisis.

Not saying that all their marriages are perfect, but even if there are problems, the decent thing to do is to work on your marriage, or just live with the problems, or even split if need be, but not cheat.

One man I know from work had an OW for years, and must have been happy with the status quo, until OW issued an ultimatum. She comes to work events as lady of the manor now, so happy to be "chosen", and I simply can't respect her, especially knowing what his first wife and children went through....

And he still comes on to the women at work every chance he gets. I guess she created a vacancy.

That happens, but it is very rare, I would say the minority of cases. Most cheaters are repeat offenders, plus you don't know that there is no cheating in the relationships you cite. They could just have got a lot better at hiding it.