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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be upset?

163 replies

Bingoe · 02/02/2024 16:53

I’ve been doing a hobby for a couple of years. I have a disability which makes me quite isolated so my support worker recommended I should join a hobby. We meet every couple of months at different venues for organised events. I’m not best buds with anyone but I make polite chitchat and enjoy going.

I turned up to the Jan 2024 meeting to discover I was excluded from participating. They could have made arrangements for me to participate but hadn’t bothered and by that time it was too late to arrange. It touched a nerve because I’ve had discrimination my whole life. I got v upset and messaged the group WhatsApp to say I’m the only person who’s excluded and it’s disability discrimination.

A committee member replied and said the organiser didn’t even know I was disabled so how can it be disability discrimination, it just so happened on that occasion I wasn’t able to participate but it wasn’t on purpose. I said someone should have told me I wouldn’t be able to participate because I arranged and paid for transport, and was literally in the foyer by the time I discovered I couldn’t participate, so that was very upsetting for me and I cried. A couple of other members replied and said chin up, you need to be more resilient because life is full of setbacks like this, and examples of times when they couldn’t participate (not the same at all). Most said nothing.

Anyway… the annual membership fee is due on 31st Jan. I’ve been very sick so I didn’t realise the date. On 1st Feb I discovered I’d been removed from the WhatsApp group and Facebook group. I know that’s because I hadn’t paid the subs, but it just seemed so abrupt. No message to say “hey Bingoe have you forgot your subs are due, are you intending to still be a member, hope you’re ok”. Nothing.

AIBU to feel really upset? I know it’s a totally practical thing, you don’t pay you get kicked out… but honestly I just feel like nobody gives a shit. Of course I could just request to rejoin and pay the subs now, but I’m really hurt at the total lack of contact, just removing me with no notification. I also feel like maybe it’s because I got upset a few weeks ago and pointed out I’d been discriminated against, so now I feel like I’m being punished for calling them out.

My partner is saying they aren’t very nice and why would you want to keep being a member anyway, but like I said I’m very isolated and it was one of the few things I had.

OP posts:
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Scautish · 04/02/2024 00:00

Thank you @LordEmsworth

it is so important for this to be understood.

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 19:49

@LordEmsworth thanks for the info

LordEmsworth · 03/02/2024 19:48

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 14:09

It's thoughtless of them but not discrimination, that'll be why they're off with you as it's awful and damaging to be accused of that so they probably want to keep their distance. That being said I'm sorry you're having a rubbish time, I can't imagine what it's like for you so I see why you've overreacted to be honest

Once again, for those struggling to keep up.

From CAB:

Indirect discrimination is when there’s a practice, policy or rule which applies to everyone in the same way, but it has a worse effect on some people than others. The Equality Act says it puts you at a particular disadvantage.
What’s a practice, policy or rule?A practice, policy or rule can be formal or informal. It can be a one-off decision or a decision to do something in the future. It includes things like arrangements, criteria, conditions, qualifications or provisions.
What’s important is that it applies to everyone in the same way, that it’s neutral. If something only applies to some people who all have the same protected characteristic, it would be direct discrimination.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/check-what-type-of-discrimination-youve-experienced/indirect-discrimination/

In this case, there is a practice - not bothering to confirm whether the venue is accessible - that has a worse effect on the OP - who has restricted mobility - than others; which puts the OP at a disadvantage, i.e. spending time/money getting to the venue to find they shouldn't have bothered.

Deliberately choosing a non-accessible venue would be direct discrimination. Thoughtlessly not bothering to check whether the venue is accessible, is the definition of indirect discrimination.

I honestly can't get my head around the number of people who are saying it's not discrimination - it absolutely is, it is indirect discrimination, google it ffs. The fact that someone is a volunteer, or was well-meaning, or was busy, or didn't think, does not stop it being discrimination against members of the group who have disabilities.

Indirect discrimination

Explains what is meant by indirect discrimination, when a practice, policy, or rule applied to everyone puts certain groups of people at a disadvantage.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/check-what-type-of-discrimination-youve-experienced/indirect-discrimination

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 16:14

@CrocusSnowdrop I disagree but respect your opinion. I'm sorry if you've been through discrimination too

CrocusSnowdrop · 03/02/2024 15:59

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 15:57

@CrocusSnowdrop I don't think it's worse and didn't even indirectly say it. I sympathise with the OP and said as much. Not trying to argue with you. Just clearing up that I'm by no means minimising actual discrimination at all.

Glad you sympathise with OP. Sorry I misconstrued your statement, I understand that you're not saying that being accused of discrimination is worse than experiencing it.
It is actual (indirect) discrimination though, so you are minimising to some extent.

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 15:57

@CrocusSnowdrop I don't think it's worse and didn't even indirectly say it. I sympathise with the OP and said as much. Not trying to argue with you. Just clearing up that I'm by no means minimising actual discrimination at all.

CrocusSnowdrop · 03/02/2024 15:55

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 15:50

@CrocusSnowdrop where did I say it was worse?

You didn't directly, but you and other posters have been saying how "awful and damaging" it is to be told you're being discriminatory. If you don't want to be accused of discrimination, don't behave in a discriminatory way.
And yes, I know it was an accident/ oversight. But it's still indirect discrimination, so OP is technically correct. And it sounds like on the day nobody apologised or offered to stay with OP until the transport came back etc.

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 15:50

@CrocusSnowdrop where did I say it was worse?

CrocusSnowdrop · 03/02/2024 15:48

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 14:09

It's thoughtless of them but not discrimination, that'll be why they're off with you as it's awful and damaging to be accused of that so they probably want to keep their distance. That being said I'm sorry you're having a rubbish time, I can't imagine what it's like for you so I see why you've overreacted to be honest

Why is it worse to be accused of discrimination than to actually experience it for so many people?
It's not an overreaction. It's perhaps not the most useful reaction, because it gets people's backs up, but hey, disabled people are human too and sometimes after years of this shit, we snap and call it what it is.

100percentage · 03/02/2024 14:56

I agree with you OP. Sounds like several different people forgot to check and that in itself is understandable but their harsh and gaslighty response isn't.

Someone just had to say 'I'm really sorry...I forgot to check. How can I fix this?' It's not that difficult to say sorry!

As for leaving you in the foyer, what a horrible thing to do. I think an organiser should have stayed with you and waited till your transport came. Yes, they'd have missed out but if you organise events (and people pay subs), it's your job to ensure everyone is ok.

longtompot · 03/02/2024 14:43

I understand why it has upset you so much. You have taken a chance to join in with a group for shared interests and then find they haven't passed on the information the person at the museum needed. It would have taken a volunteer seconds to ask if there is wheelchair access. I wonder if they told the curator there were dietary requirements within the group?
To let you make your way there only to find out you couldn't get in must have felt humiliating.
And to top it off, because you missed renewing your sub they have removed you from their group completely.

My dd became disabled when at school and she found it really upsetting when her friends just stopped inviting her to things they were doing because they thought she wouldn't be able to do it. Instead of asking, they just left her out.

I hope you find another group to join and get out there again enjoying the things you enjoy.

fuckssaaaaake · 03/02/2024 14:09

It's thoughtless of them but not discrimination, that'll be why they're off with you as it's awful and damaging to be accused of that so they probably want to keep their distance. That being said I'm sorry you're having a rubbish time, I can't imagine what it's like for you so I see why you've overreacted to be honest

goldfinchfan · 03/02/2024 13:33

I think if this had occurred back in the 1970's the entire group would have pulled out, not gone in.
Made the point that way.
I would not want to visit a museum that had no access for my friend in a wheelchair

LetMeGoogleThat · 03/02/2024 11:42

Blimey, what a shocking thread! OP, you have every bloody right to be upset and I would be too. I can't believe some of the replies I've just read, victim blaming, accusations of being dramatic and excusing the organisers 💐

Jf20 · 03/02/2024 11:11

alwaysmovingforwards · 03/02/2024 10:43

It's a real shame, but I'd just move on and find a group better suited to you and think no more about it.

But if this is the type of thing she likes to do, how many options does she have for groups in her locale.

as awkward as it is, she could put this behind her, rejoin, and simply take responsibility to check for herself in future, as she does enjoy it. Not doing so could mean only she misses out,

alwaysmovingforwards · 03/02/2024 10:43

Bingoe · 02/02/2024 18:59

I totally understand it was an oversight. They assumed it would be suitable for everyone. It was the curator who failed to communicate that wasn’t the case. Or maybe she did but the committee failed to pass that info on to me because of it being Xmas.

Like I said, what peed me off was the lack of apology. They took no responsibility and said the curator wasn’t at fault either. Then blamed me for expecting them to have done the job they signed up for, making excuses that they’re volunteers and it was Xmas.

Yes you’re right… it’s hardly surprising that when I didn’t pay up on time they just quickly removed me and didn’t follow up. That’s what happens when you speak up for yourself instead of just allowing discrimination to pass unchallenged.

It's a real shame, but I'd just move on and find a group better suited to you and think no more about it.

Bobloblaw84 · 03/02/2024 10:40

As a comparison - I am allergic to peanuts. Every single time someone has organised a dinner on my behalf I have checked directly myself to understand the menu before going. I do believe the onus is on you to check access, subscription fee or not.

Jf20 · 03/02/2024 10:38

Where would you like to go from here op. It does appear you’ve got yourself in a real pickle.

Namely as you went after them so hard and fast , refused to accept you bore any personal responsibility, and made immediate accusations of discrimination, which are always going to be incendiary, even if they were true. And not many are sure they are in this context.

it would have been better to give yourself some space, then with a calm mind, tried to understand what occurred, and as it does appear an oversight, which you yourself neglected to check, then give grace, but what’s done is done.

so where do you wish to go from here?

Do you wish to rejoin, this will involve taking personal responsibility in future to check accessibility as this is just a hobby group, and to pay your subs either on time, or when you can and rejoin.

you can handle wit grace and say you accept it was an oversight, in future you will check as you get it’s just a hobby group and you will pay your subs and look forward to the next visit. Or you can stay home, maybe look for another group.

personally I’d recommend the former. It is something you enjoy. And I think this , albeit a little awkward, is easily overcome.

theconfidenceofwho · 03/02/2024 10:25

thaegumathteth · 03/02/2024 00:10

No but you can accept that volunteers are volunteers and they are doing something for the good of others and show them a little Grace if they unintentionally make mistakes.

Absolutely!

LadyKenya · 03/02/2024 09:31

HussellRobbs · 03/02/2024 00:17

It could be they are posters who are just used to double checking everything themselves.

My mum is disabled and cannot climb stairs or escalators or walk far and needs to sit every few minutes.

We plan every outing to death and wouldn’t turn up somewhere relying on others to have done the accessibility checks.

This. It can be like a military operation, but at least it gives me peace of mind. I would not rely on others to do so.

Dancingontheedge · 03/02/2024 08:49

Of course you are entitled to feel how you feel and tell them.
However, the positive way would be to work out how to avoid something like this happening again to you or anyone else in the group. Working with them. Taking some responsibility yourself as well as expecting them to.
The formality of the letter shows that they took your accusations of discrimination seriously and were very careful how they replied to you, and when you didn’t renew, they probably breathed a sigh of relief that the issue, in their minds, had sorted itself out and you had flounced.
So now, how will you move on? Rejoin, explain and move forwards? Join a different group that’s more disability-orientated? Brood and focus on how unfair it was? Because the only one that last choice will harm is you.

Jf20 · 03/02/2024 08:30

Bingoe · 03/02/2024 00:08

It’s completely irrelevant. I paid the group and they organise things on behalf of the group. You can’t accept a volunteer job then fail to do your job because you’re a volunteer.

I understand you’re upset. But I think you need to distinguish between a professional body and a fun hobby group.

my friend is also disabled, she uses sticks and a mobility scooter, she could not habe done stairs. She always checks access before going anywhere, particularly museums or tours of buildings where access is not a given.

i think the issue here is you feel you bear no personal responsibility to check , it should have been done for you and not being done indicates to you discrimination, and in this context , for a fun hobby group, not run by professionals, people are not fully in agreement. It wasn’t her “job” , and it seems an oversight in both her part and yours.

you also seem to think they are at fault for not checking up with you when you failed to pay your subscription. I think you need to accept the volunteers are doing this as a favour for the group, they are helping out by organising stuff, in their personal time, it isn’t a job.

mayne try to put it behind you, always check for access for where you’re going, pay your subs and start again, you were enjoying it, so don’t let a misunderstanding stop you.

usedtobeasizeten · 03/02/2024 07:56

I’m sorry this happened to you. I’m assuming this museum has a website? My friend is disabled and always checks if the venue has disabled access…could you do that in future?

CwmYoy · 03/02/2024 07:41

As a fairly recent wheelchair user I never go anywhere without checking access.

I'm sorry you were upset but to have a go at the volunteers in such a fierce way seems unfair.

salsmum · 03/02/2024 00:22

It's all a bit dramatic crying in the foyer 😮😮😮😮 WTAF? As sole carer for my adult daughter who is dependant on her wheelchair at all times I can so see exactly why the poor op was reduced to tears!
Public transport is an absolute ordeal in a wheelchair/electric wheelchair where often w/chair users are treated like an utter inconvenience most of the time. Booking transport can be frustrating and not always reliable. If it was a London museum getting around the city in a w/chair you suddenly become invisible. Now if you add the fact that the disabled could be in a lot of pain and/or had paid a carer for the day and be excited to actually get a day out it's really NOT 'over dramatic' to sit and cry when you see other members of your hobby group climb the stairs in front of you muttering that you should be 'more resilient' 🤬🤬🤬 please find a group where your needs will be met better. 💐 💔

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