Wits end with everything

Oh and dinner would be decided the night before and whoever got in first started it (if you didn't want it you made your own or sometimes we'd be working late so might not be all of us)
Thankfully they had a dishwasher which my mum would load as she was anal about how it went in and dad would unload in the morning before work

I haven't read all the comments but here is how my parents rolled with 3 adult kids:

We all had full time jobs and all paid rent

Bedrooms had to be cleaned every week eg dusting and hoovering and then one of us would do the bathroom, another the kitchen and the third person the lounge. No leaving plates etc in rooms

Take turns to walk the dog and poop scoop the garden each day

In charge of own washing and ironing although would see if anyone else wanted to put theirs in if only a half load etc.

Paid for our own cars and mobiles.

If you dont like it - move out

And they also had a general move out by age 30 rule too 😂

What does DH say about this situation?

I am wondering if he is in prison?

Your son works 6 11.5 hour shifts a week and has taken on 20k debt for your family is that right? If so then no I wouldn't be expecting him to do much in the way of house work, definitely not spending his one day a week off to sort the garden. I wouldn't put anymore on him tbh It sounds like he is doing so much already for the family. If the house has got to the stage that it's just too much, could you maybe hire a cleaner even to do a deep clean to help get it more manageable? Both your children sound great, remember your daughter is barely an adult and she is trying to start her own business which is bringing in some income by the sounds of it. She's messy yes but most 18 year olds are.

Honestly it sounds as though you can't see the wood for the trees. That's completely understandable but worth realising and seeing how you can take a step back and view some of this objectively.

Sorry, you let your son take on debt to help you with court costs but you still pay everything for your dd and have a horse to fund?

Op no harm but your choices here are what's keeping you in this mess. You're being deeply unfair to your children. You need to step up and be the adult here. That means making tough decisions. You're keeping a horse at the expense of your child's financial stability. You're keeping a horse and forcing him to work an incredibly long week to pay for it. It's not ethical op I'm sorry but it's not. No wonder your children are rebelling there's no clear adult in the house. You need to step up. Get yourself counselling or whatever support from pain management clinic or gp or physio you need to build your resilience and then you need to make the tough choices.

Sorry, just read all the OPs posts. I see the horse isn’t going.

Oh and just STOP DOING THEIR LAUNDRY!
it's very simple. STOP IT. Why on earth are you doing these things?!!!

does your husband contribute and what is it costing for him to be away that is a huge part of this as well

the other thing is all of the chores etc is a smokescreen for you to focus on whereas it is the court case that has caused this

This. The horse has to go. They have to start supporting themselves.

And you need to start looking after yourself or you’ll implode.

It sounds like you feel you've tried everything. I do agree with what others have said about sitting down as a family - all four of you - and having a conversation. The first step is for you to emphasise that, now they are all grown ups, you are a household of four adults. Therefore, you all have to contribute fairly and equitably, in the ways that make most sense for each of you.

I'd then capture on paper all the things that need to be done for the household. Servicing the debt from the court battle, chores, bills etc.

Then I would present a list of all the things everyone does to contribute to the household. It's complicated as there will be a combination of financial and household work-based contributions and as you've experienced, different people have different ideas about the "exchange rate" between these things. However, just getting it all down on paper will be good.

Then I'd ask them whether they consider a) their own contributions to be fair b) whether they consider other people's contributions to be fair - including yours. This MAY throw up some hard truths about the fact that people are using the excuse of "they don't do their fair share so why should I" to disguise the fact that actually they just need to do more than they would like to do.

You can see if you can take it from there.

But that's a lot of work.

Ultimately what I'd probably do in your position is stop paying for anything for your daughter, since she isn't willing to lift a finger for you. And I'd review your son's financial contributions to the household's working budget, based on market rent, bills etc. If he should be paying more, ask for it. You could put it towards a cleaner etc.

They also both need plans to move out... In the long run.

The horse hasn’t come through your door. It is not a cat or dog, it is stabled. Horses change hands or are loaned often, dogs aren’t. Stop pretending it is the same thing, it is just another of your excuses.

Sux months ago my daughter removed her two geckos from her room and set them up on the landing whilst she decorated. She had said she cannot have them back in her room and they must stay there. I have told her to advertise them or take them back to her room by tomorrow.

What has stopped you giving her an ultimatum before on things like this OP?

Is it the guilt of the court case and financial troubles your husband caused?

You can't function on guilt alone. It's causing the family to further spiral into even more chaos.

What are you scared of? That she will move out? If she chooses to do that instead of pitching in with jobs, as an adult, then that's that.

People have suggested putting the horse for loan - you haven't come back on this. How come this hasn't been an option? It would free up £200 of the household income every month.

If your daughter doesn't want to do jobs and is that disrespectful then she can loan or part loan the horse and use the excess money saved to pay for a cleaner.

Sell the horse no matter how much it breaks your heart. Needs must. You can always get another one.

@TheSandgroper that's not how it works with a beloved pet.

Your daughter is treating you disrespectfully, and (from things you’ve written) it seems she perhaps resents you for the court case and how you behaved during it. Don’t let her get away with it. She needs some real talk to help understand your perspective and that you’ve done your best in a horrible situation.

I think a cleaner is a good idea with all adults in the house equally sharing the cost. It may help your sanity.

I think you need to start focusing on yourself. Be kind and care for you above all else. Sounds like you’ve been through a traumatic experience and your physical health needs some attention. Let go of any guilt, it’s pointless to beat yourself up over what’s happened. Find a way to let go of regrets and any feelings that aren’t helping you. Prioritise your own health and work on changing your perspective. You got through it / lived to tell the tale (some don’t, stress is a killer). Well done… Keep going!

Hi OP,
There is an awful lot to unpick in your thread and I think you need to take some time, take a step back, mull over all the suggestions you are getting from the thread and look at the situation with fresh eyes.

My take on it:

You need to stop beating yourself up about the loan your son took. Yes it rescued the family finances and for that you are grateful BUT - your son is living with you rent free at 24 - with a good job. I have had a couple of 20K loans myself over the years. One the repayments were £350 a month and one nearer £300. Obviously how much he is paying will depend on the interest rate and how many years it is spread over. Even up to £500 is perfectly acceptable in lieu of rent. Yes you are grateful but stop making yourself into a doormat because of your gratitude. Do not pay him back for his loan repayments while he is living in your house, paying nothing else and expecting his socks washed!

I think both your son and daughter should contribute to the housework and the rent but just for your consideration how much housework did your son do at 18? I'm guessing not much as he doesn't do much now. Your daughter should help but the comparisons with your son are not helpful Yes your son works long days but it's him that gets the wages for that no-one else. If he wants to outsource his share of contributing to the household perhaps another £40 a week would cover a cleaner doing what he should be doing over 2 hours a week.

If you are going to not do your daughters washing then you can't do your son's. With your bad back perhaps get one of those long grabbers and anything left around e.g. on the bathroom floor toss it into their rooms. You can do this even if you are still willing to do their washing until you ask them to bring it down. I don't think that you should refuse to do your daughters washing at 18 if you are doing your son's at 24. It's both or nothing to me.

If you can get a dishwasher (second hand) it will be life transforming. If not then I think easiest will be if everyone has to do their own washing up including you. It's difficult if you leave yours while telling them not to leave theirs. If you are going to cook for them tell them "I cook - you wash up (straight away). If it's no deal then don't cook for them, just cook for yourself. They can cook and wash up their own stuff or buy something.

I also question your idea that your daughter should take on paying for her horse entirely when it sounds like a family pet and she is only 18 with little work experience or income. I spent all my teenage years up the farm with my horse then I went to uni, put him on loan and never looked back. What if your daughter says she wants to get rid of the horse, have more free time, save for her own place? When you say "we would never sell the horse" or words to that effect it sounds like it's ownership runs beyond your daughter. If it is actually your daughters horse, that she should pay for alone, then she can sell (or put it on loan) if she likes. I have friends who never moved on from horses and took on the costs and it compromised their ability to house themselves and cope financially for decades. I would suggest going halves on the cost of the horse.

I would however encourage your daughter to get a full time job and pay rent. I would ask for a rent repayment exactly the same as your son's loan payment so the logic there is obvious. Perhaps that would be in the region of £400 a month which is very reasonable. When your son pays the loan off, if he still lives at home, he needs to redirect the payment money to you for rent.

@Isurrender Go to the top right hand corner of the post you want to reply to and left click on the 3 horizontal dots ... there. Click on 'Quote' and then you can type your message

Or alternatively start typing @ followed by the posters name and you will be able to choose it from a list ( like I just did with this reply to you)

Sell the horse, personally I'd get the house valued and have a sit down conversation where you offer to sell up, pay DS back and then all move forward alone - with you moving to a small property with no garden. They'll either wake up or you're free or it.

I think your lucky your dd hasn't gone to Uni at aged 18. Our dd will be costing us 1.1k this month. She has to pay £800 deposit for next years rental house, student loan doesn't even cover full rent for this term, we need to pay her to live. And yes she has tried to get a job but it's not easy when you are only in the town half a year.

If you were genuinely broke to the point of an expensive court case, nearly losing your home and your young adult child having to take out a £20k loan, and you were spending £220 a month on that dog regardless then I would expect to be thinking about rehoming to dog, yes. And I love dogs.

Just for reference, I was 18 and at uni and still worked 24-30 hours per week in my job.

She is taking you for a mug.

If she doesnt want to get a job, here's what you do:
You write down a list of everything that needs done in the house. I would say washing, dishes and dinner on the table for coming home is a good start.
Have a calendar with other chores, e.g. hoovering on Mondays and Thursdays, bathroom clean each Wednesday.
Dogs walked daily in the morning.
You wake her up before you leave for work.

If you dont see significant improvement or she refuses to do it, you give 3 months notice for her to move out.

She will proclaim its unfair. Remind her that your son works more in one day than she does an entire week and if she doesnt want to get a full time job, or find a second job, then she will need to resume the role as the household cleaner/maid as that is her contribution.

Stop being a pushover. She's an adult, treat her like one.

The horse is part of the family. Would people be saying give dogs away if you are broke? Pets are expensive but they are our responsibility. One of my cats can’t even look me in the eye after the vet bill I got for her at Christmas. But you don’t move pets on like a piece of furniture.

op I think you show your children this whole thread. You’ve explained yourself well and you write about your circumstances really clearly. Your son and daughter need to help out at home. They must. Your daughter needs to get more work and things must change. Good luck!

They need to pull their weight or chuck them out. Sorry to say this but you are spoiling them. Your daughter needs to do a lot more. Your son works long days so can't be expected to do as much as his sister. When she says her brother doesn't do much tell her to work 11.5 hour days. You need to toughen up with both of them or you will have them at home forever as they won't cope on their own.
Put your big girl pants on and give the pair of them a kick up the arse but a bigger kick for your daughter