Wits end with everything

Good going!

Well you've made a start OP, now you have to keep it up, and I doubt whether it's going to be easy. Whatever you do though, don't let it slide, not even once, or you're doomed! Sadly, like so many other parents these days, you let your kids get away with doing sod all in the house to help, until it got to a point where your lives have had to change. Now you have to train them to do the jobs, and most importantly KEEP DOING THEM! Don't think, 'oh, they've been really good this week, I'll do their washing for them', as again, you're opening yourself up to the whole sorry situation going back to what it was, and if you have a bad back, that's the last thing you need. Your job as a parent, is to teach your kids how to survive when they become adults. They are at that point NOW, and being an adult means earning your keep, looking after your own things, and keeping a roof over your head. So, if your daughter wants to run a car, she has to earn ALL of the money to pay for it. If she wants to go to the gym, she has to pay her own membership, and any other costs involved. If she wants new clothes, she has to buy them. She also needs to be putting some money to one side to pay for things like gifts, and other costs which only come up occasionally, ie, car break down, etc. (I haven't inclued the horse in this, as it sounds to me more like you want him, rather than it being her horse). All of these things also apply to your son. You've obviously reached an agreement with him, in respect of the loan covering his rent as it were, but any other costs, and jobs that he needs doing, he MUST be responsible for. No letting him off because he works hard, so do you, and no one lets you off, do they?

You've done well so far OP, and I wish you all the strength you are going to need to keep this pair on track!

Wow, that's great, OP!

Great start

That sounds great OP.
It sounds like they have realised that they were taking you for granted and are making the effort.

Wonderful news, OP. Keep going!

Don't do her laundry. Leave it in the basket. When she moans say it's not your stuff...
I wouldn't pay the phone or the car tax unless she helps not more around the house...
Say it and mean it

How is she paying for gym fuel car insurance etc only working 11 hours a week. That doesn't add up

@Isurrender Are you asking yourself the wrong questions?

Ask yourself why you've asked the question ' AIBU to expect help in the house?' as opposed to asking 'AIBU to be the only adult in the house to do housework when there are 3 adults living here

Obviously you're not unreasonable to expect the other two adults in the housse to pull their weight!

It's your house - owned with your husband ? (who isn't there most of the time?)
You work full time (presumably over 5 days?)
Your adult children both live there.

One of them works 11.5 hour days (unclear how many days a week this is?)

The other works 11 hours a week.
You're unhappy at the division of labour in the house.

Your son has taken out a loan to tide you over a court case ........ this has really helped you out. He's making the repayments on the loan, which is really helping you out.

He is also living in a comfortable house, without paying rent (which probably would amount to more than the loan repayments if he didn't still live at home) - which is helping him* *out.
How much would he be paying in rent for still living at home if he hadn't taken out the loan? Would he actually have moved out?
How much rent would he be paying if he had moved out?

Your daughter is setting up her own business - and works 11 hours a week.
And isn't paying rent or making an equivalent contribution to the family?

If she is the person who is working the least number of hours outside of the home / is contributing the least to the family finances and has the most free time therefore to contribute to upkeep of the home, then it makes sense that her contribution is to do more of the housework.
How much rent would she be paying if she was independent and didn't still live at home?

You need to decide what is fair and reasonable - there are 4 adults in your family. All of you should be making a contibution.
And you already know this.

It's not clear what contribution you husband makes in all of this ........

but in respect to the 3 adults that you have referred to in you OP, you shouldn't be asking. You should be telling both of them what is expected of them if they want to continue living in your home.

You lay down the law. You get over your guilt about letting the financial disaster affect your kids' lives and you make it very clear to them that the easy ride is over and everyone has to pull their weight now.

You simply tell your DD that you wont be paying for her car, horse or gym membership after a specific date. She will have to go and get any available job to pay her own bills. There are loads of jobs around, she jsut needs to go and look for them. Any clothes left on the floor get ignored, anything left lying around downstairs goes in the bin. They both have brains and can learn to work the washing machine.

It sounds as if you are a bit hamstrung by guilt over the seismic change in your kids' lives after the dramatic court case. Whether its right or wrong, its happened, and this is your new reality. The kids will have to get to grips with it as much as you will.

BTW, I've had horses and im not sentimental about them - they were there for a job. They got sold on when they would be better suited to other people. If noone ever sold their horses, how would anyone ever get an experienced horse? Some of us don't have the time or the ability to bring our own competition horse on from a foal.

Wow, OP, so your DD has A Level grades of A star, A star B? So in spite of everything going on with het DF, she only didn’t live up to potential in one subject? Her grades are actually very good and considering the circumstances they are bloody impressive.

I am an academic and former admissions tutor at an excellent university, and she just got a lot more interesting to me. I will take your word, mostly, that she would hate uni. But what will such an intelligent young woman do without some kind of further training?

Sadly I do think it is nearly impossible for an 18 yr old, no matter how bright, to succeed as a sole trader. It is great that you are helping her, but I wish she would consider that someone, somewhere might have something to teach her. I stand by what I wrote in my first post: she needs to contribute and as she cannot contribute money she needs to contribute effort. But she has enormous potential and I hope she will realise it.

I apologize. The horse, the landing big enough for a table full of gekkos, and the constant complaints about the garden as well as the details about f your dh’s failed business (multi million dollar market?) appeared to be markers of a fairly affluent lifestyle.

So what’s changed that means the situation is no untenable for you? Why is it that your children not doing chores was okay before the court case but isn’t now? Something has happened that has changed your circumstances, and that has impacted them too.

Your husband didn’t accidentally do whatever it was that he did wrong which resulted in a court case in which he was found at fault. He obviously didn’t intend to cause all this fallout, but nonetheless it was his deliberate actions that have hurt your family.

This wasn’t something I did on purpose. Sometimes life is crap but we have to try to move on to better times.

No, but it was something your husband did on purpose, and your kids’ lives have been turned upside down as a result. Rightly or wrongly, they were used to a very different kind of life, and “sometimes life is crap but we have to try to move on” is a difficult lesson for adults to learn, let alone an 18 year old who has clearly been hugely negatively affected by what’s happened. I’m not saying you should continue to let her away with not contributing but I think it would be helpful to you both if you made an effort to engage with her about how she’s feeling and tackled the resentment she no doubt feels when she’s asked to adjust to this new way of living. If my husband had fucked up so badly that my lifestyle had to change dramatically, I’d be pretty pissed off if he asked me to start doing the household chores that had previously been done by a cleaner, or whatever. I can only imagine that’s amplified when it’s your parental figure who has fucked up and he’s not even around to help. I understand that you’re posting specifically about the chores, but you can’t – or at least shouldn’t – ignore the underlying emotional trauma that’s behind a lot of it. Family counselling would be helpful, I suspect.

@Isurrender i think you all then need to let go of the financial stuff, your kids may well have more disposable income that’s fine. Come up with a reasonable amount for them both (and it will be different) to pay rent etc and stick to that. It is not their responsibility to cover any shortfalls
Then chores should be done fairly and equally

I actually read alllll your posts and everyone else’s too. You are still complaining about the son’s refusal to deal with the massively overgrown garden . That, to me, given the potential size of the house/grounds and lifestyle you once maintained, is not something that you should expect your children to maintain for you.

@Isurrender was her plan University before all of this? You say it affected her a levels to what extent- that she no longer could do what she wanted and is now in limbo.

there are definitely some areas that now you are 3 adults you need to stay strong, chores etc being one for both of them.

but you also need to remember that potentially this has affected your daughters future an awful lot - your son was already working when this happened but for her it was at a time where it sounds like it cost her a lot. Have you actually discussed this. Apprenticeships sound like a good idea but also does she want to go back to college to try again, is Uni something she still wants but is aware that financially for you it is no longer possible - even though for her it is with the loans etc she would get. Does she feel she needs to stay

I think this thread is actually harsh on someone whose life got completely upended at 17/18

The money spent on the geckos and horse could pay for a gardener. Its not the sale value of these animals but the carrying costs.

I get the sentiment but these are very champagne tastes for a family that is in financial crisis.

You did quite a lot in one day, OP.

There may be some backlash, it is to be expected. Decide where you will stay strong, eg the laundry, the geckos, the dishes etc. But your DD may need time and help with some of the bigger adjustments. Making progress is the most important thing.