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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To absolutely hate heat pumps?!

140 replies

Rosesandstars · 18/01/2024 16:57

We moved into a house with a heat pump already set up. It is awful- it takes ages for the heating to get to any reasonable temperature and the hot water runs out after a 15 minute shower, it then takes over an hour to heat up again. Does anyone else find the same or AIBU?


Updated by MNHQ
Landed on this page in search of heat pump advice? Find our guide to installing a heat pump in your UK home here. HTH!

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Lunde · 20/01/2024 01:47

Have you had an engineer out to look at it? We have geothermal heat coils under the garden and the (very very old house) felt cold when we moved in. However the geo heat engineer/plumber came and looked at the system and diagnosed that the wrong actual pump had been installed in the cellar unit and wasn't strong enough to pump water around the radiators and the hot water system in really cold weather. So he replaced the pump and no problems since then.

It's currently minus 26C outside and +18-20 inside.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/01/2024 01:08

I don’t think heat pumps are common in the US … maybe in areas that don’t get cold as a rule. I’ve lived in the Midwest/upper Midwest all of my life and heat is forced air electric or gas or radiator/oil for the most part. It is in the land where you turn it on at a certain point of the year and leave it on until spring.

Hot water heaters are almost always separate, and are either gas or electric. Mine is 80 gallons and is electric whereas my furnace is natural gas.

Air conditioning is also separate but uses the same vents as the the heat.

Jovacknockowitch · 20/01/2024 00:41

DewHopper · 19/01/2024 17:35

Bloody hell - always one...

WTF? 15 minutes in the shower? Seriously?

WhatNoUsername · 20/01/2024 00:39

I got rid of the fucking hot water tank that was installed in my current house because I got very tired very quickly of water running out halfway through a shower or running a bath or trying to wash up etc etc etc. I installed a combi as I had in my previous house because then you always know you have hot water when you need it. I sincerely hope the technology improves before they phase out gas boilers as I do NOT want to go back to a bloody tank. But if not I'll get a new one just before they are phased out and hang on to it as long as possible.

CanadaNotAMum · 19/01/2024 22:35

dorry678 · 19/01/2024 18:32

To the Canadians thinking electric heating would be better..oh my god no. It would cost an absolute fortune in the UK.

Electricity is so much more expensive than gas. Most UK home are inefficient and poorly insulated.

I know people are saying they are finding heat pumps cheaper than gas, but I have two family members, who had to install solar to fund the heat pumps. These are big houses and electrical costs for the heat pumps were ££££. No one is quoting the actual costs.

Unfortunately I live in a huge ancient house (well over 3000 sq M) and heating it all with gas, electric or heat pumps is not viable. So the Canadian ideal that it's autumn and we just turn the heat on and leave it on. That would be $150 -$170 Canadian dollars a day to heat my house to 19 degrees.

Not sure what your humidity is like but UK winter, the temp might not be terribly cold it is very damp...that's why we struggle with mould and damp. It's 95% humidity outside today.

I currently live in a couple of rooms, roll on spring.

Electricity cost here varies a lot depending on province. In Quebec, electricity is quite cheap. I’m in a 750 sq/ft flat, and with the heat pump, my total cost is about CAD 1000 per year. About GBP 600? That’s deceptively cheap due to a shady hydroelectric deal that Quebec made back in the 70s.

But the same sized flat in my home province of Newfoundland could cost 3 or 4 times that because electricity is more expensive there. So a house your size would be expensive to heat.

At the end of the day though, Canadians don’t have a choice re electricity. There is not much natural gas available, and oil is horrible and only exists in a few far flung places. So we have to use electric, and most places only have one provider, so we can’t shop around. I’m lucky that it’s cheap in Quebec, but that’s a weird case.

In terms of dampness and humidity, it depends where in Canada. Newfoundland is extremely damp always…something like 120 days a year of fog and drizzle!

WannabeMathematician · 19/01/2024 21:21

@CanadaNotAMum I agree with you the mini split is is a very good solution but most (nearly all) UK houses already have water radiator systems. It would actually be more complicated to add split systems or baseboard heating into our homes.

I’m off to read more about heating systems in other countries as I’m a nerd.

RidingMyBike · 19/01/2024 18:45

And the Canadian commenting on installing air to air instead of water. The trouble is, the vast vast majority of U.K. housing has some kind of air to water installed usually a gas or oil powered boiler with radiators. To change that over to air to air would be an enormous undertaking and not feasible in many homes.

I lived in a shared house with air vent heating like this for a while and it wasn't great - increased dust, housemate with asthma struggled with it and it depends on the house being constructed so large air vents can reach every room.

Some British houses have electrical heating using storage heaters which depend on storing heat overnight at a cheaper rate of electricity, then releasing it over the course of the next day. It's often these or oil powered boilers that heat pumps are being brought in to replace.

But electricity is more expensive here so most people aren't going to be keen on a solely electrical solution.

dorry678 · 19/01/2024 18:32

To the Canadians thinking electric heating would be better..oh my god no. It would cost an absolute fortune in the UK.

Electricity is so much more expensive than gas. Most UK home are inefficient and poorly insulated.

I know people are saying they are finding heat pumps cheaper than gas, but I have two family members, who had to install solar to fund the heat pumps. These are big houses and electrical costs for the heat pumps were ££££. No one is quoting the actual costs.

Unfortunately I live in a huge ancient house (well over 3000 sq M) and heating it all with gas, electric or heat pumps is not viable. So the Canadian ideal that it's autumn and we just turn the heat on and leave it on. That would be $150 -$170 Canadian dollars a day to heat my house to 19 degrees.

Not sure what your humidity is like but UK winter, the temp might not be terribly cold it is very damp...that's why we struggle with mould and damp. It's 95% humidity outside today.

I currently live in a couple of rooms, roll on spring.

AlwaysGinPlease · 19/01/2024 18:26

Jovacknockowitch · 18/01/2024 17:11

Who has a 15 minute shower?

I do and sometimes longer. If I'm washing my very long hair!

ClaudiaWinklepanda · 19/01/2024 18:06

Bramshott · 19/01/2024 16:55

Ours is in the loft - it's the same one we had when we had our old oil boiler TBH.

Thanks! We currently have a combi boiler so there’s no tank.

DewHopper · 19/01/2024 17:35

Jovacknockowitch · 18/01/2024 17:11

Who has a 15 minute shower?

Bloody hell - always one...

OrangeCatsRuleThisWorld · 19/01/2024 17:34

Rosesandstars · 18/01/2024 20:19

Oh regarding the heating- I meant that it takes forever to go from 18 overnight to 21 in the day. The hot water issue is the main problem though and we are a family that often takes showers one after the other.

I second (or third?) the recommendation to look at heat geek.

Re the house heat-up time, how warm do your radiators feel? It may be that your system is setup for an ultra -low flow temperature. This can be extremely efficient but works best if you are keeping a constant temperature. If you were able to turn up (or get an engineer to turn up) the flow temperature your bills might rise slightly, but your system would be more responsive. This might be the simplest way to get a few hours at 21 when you want it. You could also experiment with setting the system to say 19.5 all the time (using your current flow temperature), and see if that's actually just as comfortable .

To keep the high efficiency but get a more responsive sytem, there are two bigger changes you could also consider (they would be additive so could try either or both)

These would be:
Better insulation and draughtproofing. That way the same amount of heat warms your house up faster.

Bigger radiators in the rooms you want warm - a bigger radiator gives out more heat even at the same flow temperature, again, warming the room faster. Heat pumps do work much better with larger radiators ie double or even triple thickness ones, of a good size.

This should all have been checked by the installer of course, but I realise you weren't there.

Re the hot water, again if the system isn't giving you what you need you could get a bigger tank (this is assuming the tank you have has the correct coil -again hard to know if you weren't there but there may be some info somewhere?)

Otherwise again, how hot is your unmixed hot water? Heat pumps vary in the top temperature they can reach but you may be able to turn it up, which means a tankful will go further. Once again it does cost more to heat to a higher temperature but you may feel the convenience is worth it. And it will still be cheaper than using an immersion heater.

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/01/2024 17:25

Mayhemmumma · 19/01/2024 17:14

Oh dear had one installed this week - took advantage of the grant to get rid of ancient oil boiler. The water tank of huge so I'm hoping we won't have a problem... underfloor heating seems toasty so far although radiators took a while to heat up but then the house has been empty and freezing for a long time.

plenty of us on here who love them. Fingers crossed you had a good installer who knew what (s)he was doing, don't hesitate to get them back if it's not working as promised. Ours came back to tweak lots of times! If you have UFH then you should be off to the races!

With a huge water tank you should be fine on the water front too. The only issue we have is because of its precise positioning it takes a while for water upstairs to heat up (one you open the tap/shower I mean). But once warm is plentiful.

OrangeCatsRuleThisWorld · 19/01/2024 17:16

Metallicant · 18/01/2024 21:48

We have one at work and I hate it. It gets oppressively hot and then the moment the room reaches a certain temperature it starts blowing out freezing cold air to get the temperature down. It’s never just right.

This sounds like an air-to-air heat pump that also does aircon - and a badly set up one into the bargain. Most domestic heat pumps work on wet systems ie radiators and/or underfloor, and hardly any of them do cooling as well, though we may be getting to the stage where cooling might be useful, especially in cities, so it could come.

Mayhemmumma · 19/01/2024 17:14

Oh dear had one installed this week - took advantage of the grant to get rid of ancient oil boiler. The water tank of huge so I'm hoping we won't have a problem... underfloor heating seems toasty so far although radiators took a while to heat up but then the house has been empty and freezing for a long time.

Bramshott · 19/01/2024 16:55

ClaudiaWinklepanda · 19/01/2024 16:07

Where are the large hot water tanks people are talking about?

Ours is in the loft - it's the same one we had when we had our old oil boiler TBH.

CanadaNotAMum · 19/01/2024 16:48

WannabeMathematician · 19/01/2024 15:53

@CanadaNotAMum Most uk houses don’t have the heat pumps that cool because our pipes are not insulated in our wall to the extent needed to stop condensation. So for many house if you used that functionality it would lead to more mould. It’s another quirk of our building regulations.

I love our new heat pump. We use less energy heating our house 24/7 (though it does turn it def off and on as needed) then what we used with our gas boiler to heat our house for 5 hours a day. It’s the same price due to the difference in gas and electricity costs but I’m warmer and thus happier.

I’ve been digging into the differences a bit more, and I think it’s down to what we mean when we say “heat pumps”. Apparently in the UK, you tend to use air-to-water heat pumps. And I guess the water radiates heat through the floor or something.

In North America, we prefer air-to-air heat pumps. You can get mini split wall units (which is what I have) or it can have ducts that send warm (or cool) air that way. In Canada, we can’t use heat pump technology as our only heat source though due to cold snaps in winter where a heat pump is not designed to work well. But I’d say my mini split provides 100% of my heating in Oct, Nov, March, April, and probably 70% January-Feb overall in a Montreal winter.

Honestly, the air-to-water systems you have sound incredibly complicated and not great. The UK does not have extreme cold and it shouldn’t be this hard to design a heating system. IMO, you’d be better off with electric baseboards and investing in an air-to-air mini split for the main floor, but that doesn’t seem to be a thing.

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/01/2024 16:09

ClaudiaWinklepanda · 19/01/2024 16:07

Where are the large hot water tanks people are talking about?

ours is in the garage. Understairs cupboards/utility rooms are possibilities too. Yes it's harder if you aren't lucky enough to have the space and/or can only fit a smaller one.

ClaudiaWinklepanda · 19/01/2024 16:07

Where are the large hot water tanks people are talking about?

WannabeMathematician · 19/01/2024 15:53

@CanadaNotAMum Most uk houses don’t have the heat pumps that cool because our pipes are not insulated in our wall to the extent needed to stop condensation. So for many house if you used that functionality it would lead to more mould. It’s another quirk of our building regulations.

I love our new heat pump. We use less energy heating our house 24/7 (though it does turn it def off and on as needed) then what we used with our gas boiler to heat our house for 5 hours a day. It’s the same price due to the difference in gas and electricity costs but I’m warmer and thus happier.

GasPanic · 19/01/2024 15:49

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/01/2024 15:24

As far as kWh of heat input to the house, you're completely correct. What I meant is the harder you push a heat pump, the less efficient it is. So we would use more electricity, as well as wearing out the compressor in the heatpump faster, if we tried to heat the house from cold, rather than just maintaining a comfortable temperature. This is one of the biggest differences between a gas boiler and a heatpump, you have to think about it quite differently.

Heat pumps are lower power than gas boilers. So it takes them longer to deliver the same amount of energy.

You can boost the power output of a heat pump, but only at the expense of efficiency.

And even in this lower efficiency high power output state, it still will not match the power output of a gas boiler.

GasPanic · 19/01/2024 15:42

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/01/2024 14:08

@Rosesandstars
was discussing your post with my DH at lunch. He offers the following (apols for being long and digressing a bit but I agree with everything he says)

If your post said "AIBU to hate living in a cold house?" then no, (almost) nobody would like that. But you're not living in a cold house strictly because it's got a heat pump.

Consider this; if I said "AIBU to hate it when the food in my fridge goes off?", people might ask what the thermostat was set to, if the seals were damaged, if it had been cleaned recently. I doubt anyone would start ranting about heatpumps and how they don't work, because most people have experience of fridges, freezers or air conditioning. They all use the same basic technology and physical principles as the ones used to heat houses, but no-one complains about them because by and large they work as expected.

In Scandinavian countries, heat pumps are commonplace, normal, yet these are not places known for their mild winters. They demonstrably do work in cold conditions. So why is your house cold?

The simple answer is that whoever fitted the heatpump either didn't know what they were doing, or didn't care about whether the end result would be any good, or possibly both. If you want something or someone to hate, cowboy plumbers would be a good start.

The (rather) more complex answer is that gas boilers and cheap gas have allowed the building trade to be, for want of a better word, lazy. Most gas boilers are hugely oversized, outputs of 25-30kW are not uncommon (for reference, an ordinary hairdryer is 2-3kW). This is mainly so it can can heat water on-demand - so you can't "run out" of hot water - while avoiding the need to fit a tank. It's convenient for the user, but it also saves builders money (less plumbing, no tank). On top of that, builders don't need to size a heating system properly, they just chuck in a powerful boiler and let cheap gas do the work.

Hot water aside, almost nobody actually needs to pump 25kW into their homes, unless you like to set your thermostat at 28C or you live in an actual, literal mansion. But such high outputs (and the fact that gas has historically been so cheap) has meant builders can just install small cheap radiators with pipework barely big enough for drinking straws, buildings can be poorly insulated and leaky, and people just compensate by running their heating at 60-70C. This is not efficient even for a gas boiler, but again nobody cared because gas was cheap.

Our house is an unremarkable 15yo detached. It has cavity and loft insulation, but is by no means "super well insulated". The windows in particular were pretty draughty even when closed!
Our installer did a survey, got the dimensions and materials of the house, and got a heat loss calculation done for each room. Off that, we then sized the radiators for each room; the installer started off assuming a relatively low maximum flow temperature (eg 40C) since this is most efficient (aka uses least energy = cheapest to run). If what's there is already big enough, great. If not, you either need a bigger one, or you'll need to set a higher flow temperature. That will make your heatpump less efficient, but you'll save money on new radiators. Swings and roundabouts.

We ended up replacing a number of radiators, moving some around internally, and removing a couple as well. And installed a large water tank. It's taken some tweaking but the house is always a pleasant temperature, and our bills are lower than they were with the old gas boiler, while we are more comfortable and we've yet to experience a 'no hot water' situation.

If whoever did your install didn't do their due diligence and follow through on the necessary changes, you'll have a shit experience. Most commonly the radiators are left too small, meaning that there isn't enough surface area to transfer heat energy through. You can either crank up the flow temps (which will help but will cost a fortune, and still may not work that well) or freeze. Or in the longer run, you could consider getting a heating engineer to have a look at the system. It could be that you could change some of the radiators and have a system that would work much better.

Lots of people will say "I can't afford all this" and that's fair, this shit is expensive. There needs to be comprehensive support from government to get us off fossil gas. This also has to include planning rules, and training support for installers, since that is also a major bottleneck. Some people will say "I could afford it but I'll never make my money back". To those people I say "no, you probably won't". I've mentioned over and over how we are in this mess because many recently built houses have been built with an eye to making the most profit for the builder, not making them economical and comfortable to live in. Be angry with the large house builders, they have consistently lobbied governments for lax energy standards. They got the profits, we get the poorly insulated housing and high bills.

Separately there has been minimal support for people to make energy efficiency upgrades to older homes. What little there was got binned by Tory governments in 2012 or so. So now we have a huge backlog of housing stock that will need expensive retrofit to be able to use heatpumps economically.

Yes as a country we could just "stay on gas" for heating, but we don't want to be beholden to the likes of Putin or the Gulf states when it comes to energy sources. The UK has an outsize responsibility for historical emissions, particularly when we consider things like all the logging done in former colonies for the profit of Empire. So we really should be leading the way when it comes to getting away from it.

At the end of the day houses, like anything , are built to a price.

Expecting builders to put in unnecessarily expensive heating infrastructure 20 years ago on the off chance everyone might go over to heat pump technology and make them "heat pump ready" with the additional risk that that technology might actually not come in is pretty unrealistic. And I am pretty sure consumers would not want to pay for it, people are more interested in the bathroom, the number of bedrooms or size of the gardens, which often explains why new builds are fitted with boilers made by the lowest bidder (or at least were until energy bills started rocketing).

The "heat pump hate" that has been generated to me lies squarely at the blame of installers not installing the systems correctly. This seems to happen every time the government offers some sort of grant/subsidy. A load of cowboys enter the market who are just intent on hoovering up cash and who don't give a damn whether the customer gets a good install or not. It happened as well with insulation and I am sure it will happen with other things in the future - it always does where the government tries to hose down a problem with money.

Heat pumps "work" well in Scandanavian countries for a few reasons. One is because they have no cheap alternative to electric heating (other than wood, domestic gas is largely non existent). If people didn't have gas in the UK heat pumps would look a lot more attractive vs normal electric. Two their houses are better insulated so they use less energy anyway. Three their country is less crammed with people, so there is more space for GS rather than AS heat pumps, which are more efficient in colder countries because of the realtively invariant ground temperature and finally the pumps they do have tend to have better tech to cope with the low temperatures.

Most of our gas comes from domestic supplies and Norway. The middle east and Russia supply relatively little to us, although of course they do influence the market price.

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/01/2024 15:34

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 19/01/2024 15:25

So do you have to have a tank if you have a heat pump?

If you want the heatpump to heat the water then broadly yes - other option is to use the HP for heating only and use other methods eg gas or very powerful separate electric system for the water.

Clearinguptheclutter · 19/01/2024 15:26

Bramshott · 19/01/2024 15:01

YANBU to hate YOUR heat pump if it's not working well for you and the hot water cyclinder is too small for your needs.

YABU to extrapolate from that that you hate heat pumps in general. As many PPs have said - lots of us have them, including in older, non-underfloor-heated houses, and find them really good.

indeed you need to find a heatpump -friendly engineer that can tell you what steps re required to make your house warmer and hot water supply more plentiful.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 19/01/2024 15:25

So do you have to have a tank if you have a heat pump?