Re this math teacher's response

Hi @Diorama1 I completely understand your concerns. I think it’s the way the maths guy responded to your concerns that wasn’t what you expected.
However, I think what you’re saying you want is, for your son to learn more breadth - so learning across the subject yes? So not necessarily that he’ll rush on ahead then find his maths lessons boring - but just other ways he can be learning maths whilst still getting on ok during school time.

My DS loves maths. We had similar issues with him but we helped him to find websites and other types of logical problem solving that boosted his love of it.
He was trying to do this prime number challenge to be the first person in the world to find something or other about a prime pattern (I have no idea what 😂) and then he loves chess and watching chess on YouTube. So maybe trying to find other maths-related things your DS might like other than the maths he does for gcse revision might help him get a bit more inspired. DS also loves architecture so structural building/designing apps might be worth a look at to see if there’s anything there he likes.

Another thing my DS got interested in (and now he’s 18 has successfully managed to do in real life), is to learn about the stock market and there is a really cool app where you can ‘buy’ shares and it looks like/tracks eat time the real stock market. Obviously it’s not real and it doesn’t include what you’d pay for fees etc but it gives them a really good insight into the global market and all that’s to do with buying and selling stocks and shares. I’ll ask him later what the app is called but I think it’s ’Stock Market Simulator’.

In his GCSE year, he did these practice papers below which were really helpful…. A local private school uses them for their students all the time.
https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/

No new advice but great resources recommend here, thanks

I actually think these are two separate issues

1. Your son picks things up quickly and is ready for the next challenge . ( teacher possibly got defensive as he can’t provide any faster a pace )
2. The teacher is probably correct unless you revise /refresh for examines you will have forgot the old material and remembered the new stuff .

Think this is very good advice.

Teacher here. The teacher you mention isn't a performing monkey. We can't all be teachers like Robin Williams' character in Dead Poet's Society! If your son is truly gifted in Maths and interested he should be more than capable of finding the extra material you are after. Remember that teacher's priority is the whole class's achievements not just to stimulate your 'talented' son. Practically that will mean teaching to the exam spec mostly.

Does you son's school offer extra challenges in Maths? Could you perhaps politely ask for any details. Ultimately it's up to your son to motivate himself and I do know how difficult that can be with teenagers.

If he finds things too easy now and doesn't put much effort in then when the difficulty ramps up he won't be able to cope, I used to say to the more able, and their parents, that they have to be prepared for the brick wall when they will need to study hard. Often the pupils who have coasted through 7,8,9 find 10 and 11 horrendous because they don't have the study skills.
Also repeating work he can do is developing exam techniques, so often a pupil would say Oh, I didn't realise it meant that! The same skills can be tested in many different ways.

In work atm, but set him a task to research “knot theory”.

I have known lots of dc who absolutely loved maths , my dc being one.Without exception they were seeking out maths knowledge to extend themselves off their own bat, especially by 14!!

I think you're getting something of a rough ride here OP. It isn't ideal to be repeating easy work when you're already bored. Doing next year's maths risks not understanding it properly and/or being even more bored next year. Some ideas:

Nrich is an excellent start.

Chess. If a beginner, Gary Kasparov Checkmate or Levy Rozman's How to Win at Chess. Levy also has a youtube channel with the name Gotham Chess.

Martin Gardner puzzles, or the GCHQ puzzles for spies books.

Alex Bellos' Monday puzzles in the guardian.

@Diorama1
if he was doing the current level of work three years ago, where was he doing it? At school? Or self study? If the latter he could carry on in the same vein. Does the Irish system hVe Further Maths or Additional Maths at Junior Cert ?

I'm sure he isn't really but he's coming over a little bit cocky

I mean, with those results, is there really an issue with being a bit cocky? He's very good!

My son's similar - fantastic grades, only marred by silly mistakes (and poor handwriting). I know he's got the maths under control, so he just concentrates on other subjects more, and if I want to stretch him, we talk about exam techniques (not rushing and making silly mistakes for instance!)

I think the trouble with differentiation at this level is that there's a curriculum they have to follow for JC, and so differentiation has to be for fun. For JC they just need to consolidate what they know.

Mind you, if the teacher is threatening bouncing him out of higher, then that needs to be watched - happened to me at school, they decided to put everyone in to the intermediate paper, which meant me and a few others couldn't get a higher grade than a B (long time ago), which the intermediate paper maxed out on.

For the record, I don’t think you’re that parent.
I also don’t think it’s a teacher’s responsibility on telling you how to get your child to study. That’s the role of a parent and I have zero power on what a student does outside of class time. Provide resources? Possibly. assuming that the school is well resourced and has them to offer. You could perhaps send a follow up email asking for links/book titles that may be useful.

I am not sure that your issue is solely with the Maths teacher, as it seems all the teachers said the same thing?

He clearly needs to apply some self-discipline.

I'm sure he isn't really but he's coming over a little bit cocky.

It's great being bright and picking things up quickly but he needs to apply himself and find some self-motivation - he'll need that for A-levels and university

He also needs to re-read his answers. I'm assuming he finishes ahead of time? Then he won't make elementary mistakes.

But outside of school, are there not websites for kids working ahead of their peers?
Maybe a specific aspect of maths he could develop?

Oh your son sounds very much like I was. Self taught from the textbooks, preferred to work in bursts and worked ahead in the book, then focussed on other things for a bit then came back to maths again. At your son's age I had a teacher for 2 years who said she'd give me extension work but only on the condition that I did the class work when the class were doing it not working ahead - result I got very bored and dropped behind at times. Still aced the exams.

The saving grace for me was getting involved in olympiad maths, so I had truly challenging problems to get my teeth into. Alongside that doing class exercises and challenging myself not to get things wrong was more manageable. I have to say I was 15/16 the year I properly started working on eliminating silly mistakes (that was the only thing I needed to do to get top marks in chemistry for example - not UK and our syllabuses didn't go nearly far enough at school).

I've had a quick look at the Irish maths olympiad site - they offer some material and also it appears there are enrichment classes October to Dec/January. Your son may well be ready for these by October even if he is below the age they target them at so I would make enquiries now and point him at problem solving. The UK maths trust material that several people have mentioned is fantastic, and he should dive into that systematically and see how he gets on.

Although you are right that he needs to extend his maths out sideways rather than just working ahead in the school texts, as long as he completes classwork (in class probably sufficient) then let him do stuff at his own pace, he will get more bored feeling "I mustn't do X" "I have to do Y" than if he can follow his instincts and interests.

Shame about the other extension classes - I wonder if you should look at them again to see if what is offered for an older age group will start to suit him better.

Good luck.

Sorry I haven't read all the posts but just the OPs, but to me it sounds like a miscommunication with the teacher!
I'm an ex-tutor and I personally think it's really important to instil a love of maths!
Maybe have a look at the UKMT maths challenges? (https://ukmt.org.uk/) There are different levels. They are more puzzle-type questions that are meant to be fun and challenging!

The child is in Ireland so won't be doing GCSEs.

OP

You have not given enough of the correct information.

His 90%+ score is that on just the latest bit he has learned or is it overall? So do they learn eg Pythagoras and then do a quiz?If so then the teacher is right, he need to be able to apply that in a different context or as part of a question.

Is your son one of the, "Why do we have to do this? We did it last year" when what you did last year was the foundation, I'm recapping so we can build on this.

If he can confidently complete the Irish version of GCSE and score 90% then I think you have a point, but is he really that far ahead of the class?

I think you both miscommunicated. You sounded like you were saying your DS finds the teacher's lessons too easy and he can ace the tests without doing any work. The teacher sounded like he didn't understand you were really asking for advice and doubled down on a child he sees as not doing the work that is expected of him.

I would leave it, but if you do communicate with school again I would not criticise the teacher for his comments (no headmaster will side with a parent against a teacher that is simply saying you need to revise in order to succeed in exams), but instead emphasise that you are supportive of the teacher's aims but would appreciate advice as to how to motivate your son at home.

I suspect it will all blow over so long as your son continues to get 98%, but if those grades begin to slip he will get very little sympathy is he refuses to put the work in.

I was good at maths, head and shoulders above almost everyone in my year. I now have a degree in it. I'd complete an exercise in about 1/4 the time the rest of the form would take and get 100% in GCSE, A-level and A-level further (pure) without any revision. I found further mechanics a bit harder, but when I'd got there, well I got nearly 100% on one of my final's papers in mechanics.

My maths teachers didn't need to challenge me because I'd finish the exercise, occasionally they had an extension, but I'd settle down with the work and work round the subject.
I remember working out what x! meant on the calculator and being really excited. I showed the teacher and they showed me a couple of things I could do using that.
And I'd work out how something worked by first principals.
Or take a book from the side of the room (far easier now with google) and try something totally different.

I'd do maths exercises at home for fun. I still like a nice maths equation challenge.

My point is, that if he is challenged by maths and good at it, he doesn't need the teacher to be pushing him. There's so much out there, much easier than when I was at school, that he can use to challenge himself if he wants to. You can use the methods you've learnt to do so much more fun things. If he's good at maths he doesn't need the teacher to lead him.

We had a similar experience at a parent's evening with our son, but for chemistry. He'd got something like 92% in the year end exam and we thought it was brilliant. The teacher said "it was OK" and we were stunned. He went on to explain he knew that DS was "coasting" and could do a lot better, wasn't really putting enough effort it, just going through the motions, etc. We took it badly as a kind of insult and couldn't believe he said that after such a spectacular exam result.

But as time passed, different teachers, etc., we started to realise the teacher had been right. Son's marks etc started to dip, not by much, but it was clear either he was losing interest or wasn't putting the effort in when things were getting harder. Son was compliant, though, took our advice, realised he'd started to lose the plot and started to make more effort again, and brought it round.

A couple of years later, he got the same Chemistry teacher again, and we had a much more amiable parent's evening where he reminded us of what he'd said and how happy he was that DS was really making the effort, contributing more to class, etc., and well on target, even though his year end mark was "only" in the late 70's % wise. On paper, it looked like he'd got worse, but in reality, his attitude, work ethic, etc had got better, and the work was now many times harder. He ended up with a grade 9 at GCSE! Teacher was right after all!!

Realistically, teachers are seldom interested in pupils who are performing at or above their expected level. They are going to spend their time and energy on the ones who are below expected but with the potential to reach expected or above. It's the classic complaint of the "one size fits all" education system that those who are performing become invisible. They don't have the time nor effort to find "harder" work. Even if they did, it just defers the issue as the pupil will then have done the work planned for the following term or year, so it will be never ending. They're hardly likely to start giving your son A level work by the time his class are preparing for GCSEs!

It's a shame if the school doesn't have a Maths "club" as that's the usual outlet for "gifted" pupils to spread their wings alongside others of similar ability, usually doing things that aren't taught in schools at all - i.e. abstract concepts, alternative ways of solving problems, etc. Some schools may also put pupils into national competitions such as the Maths Olympiad which again has the kind of question to solve that will never be found within normal school Maths lessons!

The bigger problem I see with the OP's son is that complacency can creep in, that they stop spending time revising and doing practice questions and become blase and don't put effort into new topics, so can quickly fall behind and miss out on fundamental new skills that can really hamper their progress from which some never recover. To an extent, that's me! I was always excellent at Maths, always asking for harder work, etc. throughout primary school and the first 2/3 years of secondary, but the GCSE years hit me like a brick wall and I ended up failing it, having to do a couple of resits, firstly to claw my way to a C and then a second time to get a B, which led to me doing A level, which I still struggled with and only got a D (which meant something in those days, 80s). In my professional exams for accountancy, we did a few higher maths style papers, one being quantitative analysis, which I absolutely nailed with a score of over 90% on all of them, so I did have the maths skills after all, but just suffered a really bad few years at first when we got onto the harder stuff without me realising it, and fell behind which you just can't do with Maths as it's all cumulative.

Your son makes ‘silly mistakes’ because he rushes. Therefore, he needs to learn to pay more attention to detail and examine his work more thoroughly. But his mum insists he’s a genius who cannot repeat the same type of problems. The same ones he is getting wrong.

He got 98%, I’m a bit confused about what more she wants tbh. He’s doing brilliantly well by any standard.

I can see what all the teachers on here are complaining about if you are representative of the parents they deal with on a daily basis.

Your son makes ‘silly mistakes’ because he rushes. Therefore, he needs to learn to pay more attention to detail and examine his work more thoroughly. But his mum insists he’s a genius who cannot repeat the same type of problems. The same ones he is getting wrong.

I was also going to suggest the UK Maths Challenges. My DC's school supported him to do them. The challenges involve problem-solving rather than handle-turning so someone who is bored with handle-turning may well find them more interesting. They take a very different direction from the school maths curriculum but they teach mental skills that university maths courses require.

They also involve hard work but it's the kind of hard work that means banging your head against an interesting problem and trying many different approaches that may fail without knowing which approach is going to lead to the answer.

If you would like a tailored approach to learning for your child OP, then you can pay for a private maths tutor for him or find the material yourself. As a previous poster has already pointed out teachers are under massive pressure as it is, they have to teach in a way that works for the majority of the class. That means going through the curriculum, and the “extras” is going through the textbook & past papers. If you want something above and beyond that, you can find a personal private tutor to provide it.