AIBU to feel societal pressure re getting a house now we have a DD?

Re investment London flats haven't performed that well in the last few yrs.

@user1477391263 we have a large home office in the garden that doubles as a "den". The dc often disappear into there with friends, they aren't old enough to meet with friends alone but we have a decent high street nearby anyway (I'm in London). I also grew up in London & whilst my friends & I did go out in the local area a lot we spent a lot of time at each others houses. Before this we had a good sized flat with a garden but I'm happy in the house. Number of dc probably makes a difference. I wouldn't move further out for a massive house as I like amenities on my doorstep

If you are thinking of buying, I would say a house is a better investment than a flat. With a house you own the land and that can appreciate over time, there are also lots of people with similar concerns about leasehold so you might struggle to find a buyer if/when you want to sell it.

I personally wouldn’t want to raise my children in a flat, but that’s personal preference and you may feel totally differently. I think kids do benefit from having some outside space though

YABU. If you have the choice you are doing your child a disservice by keeping them cooped up in a flat.

Children need outdoor space, even if she’s “not a particularly outdoorsy kid”. Of course she isn’t - she’s cooped up in a flat

See, I find this so interesting because my experience has been literally the opposite. Turning my kids out into the big garden at my parents' suburban villa to play by themselves has been nice, and I can certainly see the attraction for the 4-10yo age group. But my older girl has grown out of this kind of stuff now, and I really struggle to keep her active when we go to stay at the grandparents' place. In our central location, she can go to friends' houses by herself or they meet up on the main street to get bubble tea and look round the shops. I don't have to be involved or cart her round anywhere. Of course, this can be true for kids in suburban houses too, if they live on a decent bus/train/tram route or have a nice local high street, so I also don't want to generalize.

I also think culturally we are quite different to other countries where flat living is normal having said that I would live in a flat in z1 because it’s z1. I wouldn’t chose a flat in z3 over a house in a cheaper part of London.

I don’t want to let peer and societal pressure push us towards a direction that doesn’t fully work for us but equally, I am scared we’d be regretting not getting a house further down the line.

Will you feel bad if the friends you talk about move out all have houses/more space etc?

I think flats are fantastic with young dc but houses are easier when you have older dc who have friends around/want time alone etc.

I live outside the UK (Tokyo) and live centrally in a three-bed apartment with my two kids and husband. I've had some weird reactions from (a few) UK people, but I like the way we live. I like being central and having great public spaces on our doorstep, I like that it's so easy to keep fit and healthy as we can walk and bike places, I like that older children can quickly become so independent and not have to be wheeled around by parents all the time. Flats are also much cheaper to heat and we don't have to run a car. Of course, that last one will depend on your area - the UK is often poor for public transit. You might be able to get away with one car rather than two, for example.

Good soundproofing, an elevator and a balcony are essential IMO. It's also worth looking into childproof ultrastrong netting to make a balcony safer.

A garden would be a nice-to-have if someone turned up and gifted me one. It's not sufficient inducement for me to move to the suburbs, though. We go to my parents' suburb with their wonderful garden each summer, and it's nice, but the window for independent play in the garden was not that long; very little kids need supervision in the garden anyway, older kids grow out of the garden and you end up going to a park in any case. My parents' garden is lovely and huge and the kids actually could play in there, but my younger friends with newbuilds mostly have tiny gardens that are too small for any useful play. Might as well ,have a balcony, maybe....I dunno? Still, everyone has different feelings about this. For some people, just having a garden feels essential and they don't want to compromise on this - it's just the way they feel.

If you do decide to go this route, be prepared for lots of "So, when are you to going to move further out and get a house with a garden?" questions. For a few years. Eventually people do give up and stop asking, though.

Ultimately, we all like different things and I've personally seen happy parents successfully raise kids in all sorts of environments - urban apartments, terraces with tiny gardens, suburbs, edge of town, and out in the countryside - even a remote farm hundreds of miles from anywhere in the middle of Australia!

For me the issue isn't flat v. house...a nice flat with enough bedrooms is perfectly fine. For me the issue is renting v. owning. I'd much rather own

Are you planning more kids though? As I think kids will naturally run about and be noisier when with others. If not, no concerns. But of you are, worth thinking about.
For me, I think living near parks would be more important than a garden. Even with a garden, I still took my kids out to the park every day when they were young.
I wouldn't worry about the 'societal pressure' you are feeling. If you know an apartment would work better for you. I think people naturally justify what they have chosen, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with your way.

I absolutely don't think flat life is bad at all for kids, especially in London. We hate gardening, for some reason bought a house with a huge garden, hated every second of maintaining it so sold it and now have a house with a teeny, tiny urban concrete garden! We love it!

What I would say is that covid really taught me that an outside space - even maybe just a balcony - was a real help with children. Loads of my friends have flats with 1/2 kids and they did say that that was challenging. A garden was useful to get some energy out so that would be my only reservation.

Why are you so against LG? I lived in one for two years in Zone 2 and it was awesome.

I do think there is definitely pressure to raise your kids in a house in the suburbs (opposite to a flat in the city center where you're kinda expected to live when you're young and single).

Most of my friends grew up in flats on the outskirts in the city and now it seems borderline a crime. Almost all.my friend with kids bought a house as soon as they saw two lines on the pregnancy test. Those with still renting flats get the "well, soon you'll find a nice house" or some crap.

I grew up in a terraced house and I don't recall playing in the garden as a kid. We always went to.play at the communal areas. Also my kinda controversial opinion is that I'm not a huge fans of the gardens I've seen in Britain. The fences are too high and restricting to my liking. But that's a cultural difference since my bf can't phantom the ridiculous gardens we have 😅

It really depends on your family / child - my daughter never even looks at the garden but we got a garden for our football mad son.
re pets - we rent and most landlords are fine with our two cats from experience.

live in a flat in zone 2 in london with toddler - baby on the way in the summer - i live walking distance to 3 wonderful parks, a huge Gym with swimming pool, a brilliant soft play, 3 supermarkets, loads of places to eat all on the doorstep!

I live a 20 minute walk to work

I wouldn't move further out for a house and give up all these things tbh!

I have had people ask if we are moving when number 2 comes along - i just say no plans to ! and leave it at that - don't care what anyone else has to say or think tbh

We are also both European. I grew up in a flat (everyone did in my part of Europe), my partner was moved out of a city flat to a house in a village at a young age. We both had happy childhoods and, being "foreigners" really can't get on board with the obsession with houses in the UK. Maybe that's why we never felt the pressures you are talking about.
My British ex also had a big aversion to bungalows. I could never understand that either.

I don't think living in a flat is an issue but I would say that at some point if you buy you will own your home, whereas if you rent you will need to be paying rent when retired. Paying off my mortgage felt very good! I would definitely say consider buying but it doesn't need to be a house

I was brought up in a top floor flat in Crystal Palace and didn't leave home until my early 20s. Nothing wrong with that and it hasn't (so far as I am aware) had any impact on me at all. It was a warm, weatherproof, safe, and loving home and with a park of 19 acres half a mile away I had more space than any kid with a garden. My parents wouldn't move because they loved the area and they both stayed in the flat until they died.

We lived in flats without gardens with all 3 of our children-eldest is 14 and youngest 6. We did what you’ve explained and moved out to a home county to a house with a garden and do regret it somewhat now. Yes the garden has been fantastic in the warmer months and theres no fear of leaving the ‘back door open’. We moved from Kings Cross so quite a vibrant part of London to Hertfordshire. We miss the hustle of it and especially miss being closer to family and friends. My husband commutes in every day-self employed-which is a headache for him most days. Granted we’ve saved money as we no longer have to shell out a fortune on parking permits but now it’s the extra expense of renovations both inside and out to the property. I guess it depends on how far out you want to be and whether financially you’d be better off I suppose. My children have been to 3 separate primaries in 3 years so it’s a lot for them to go through too!

I don't think it would be unreasonable to get a flat if that's what works for you. But I wouldn't have wanted to live in a flat with young children. Less because of not having a garden and more because of the noise! Kids wake up early and as soon as they can they are running about playing. But if they are waking up neighbours (downstairs in particular) or neighbours are waking them.up with banging doors and loud music, that is going to be extremely uncomfortable for everyone.

The other thing to consider is that flats don't tend to increase in value as much as houses. So if you decided down the line you wanted to sell up and get a house, you might still be looking at the houses you are looking at now.