Brianna Ghey.

The reading of the transcript in court made it clear that the dog walker was in a state of shock and couldn't see anything that could be done. The poor woman. Nobody could prepare for that.

I totally agree! I would like to think I would have listened to the 999 caller and put pressure on her wounds or held her hand.
But nobody really knows how they would act. It must have been an horrific thing to come across.
I feel she would get unnecessary backlash if released.

@coffeandrteav

I don’t think we need to hear that 999 call, we got the jist from the transcript. Horrific.

I’m also loathe to criticise Mrs Vize too much.

Do any of us know how we would react in that situation?

It sounded like she quickly judged Brianna had no chance no matter what she might have done. Furthermore, you touch the dying body, covering yourself in blood, you also at least initially become a prime suspect with all that entails.

@girlfriend44 it is really not as simple as you think. Loving parents can have children who do horrible things. Children who do horrible things sometimes don't have parents, or don't live with them. There are so many various things that can happen that create situations like this, it's incredibly complex and definitely not as simple as you are insinuating.

I read that the BBC have asked for the 999 call to be released. I hope it isn't for the sake of the dog walkers as they don't deserve to be hounded for not coming across well.

Thinking of Brianna’s parents on this supposed idyllic day & wish her well with her marvellous campaign promoting mental well-being in schools.

As for parental culpability in this case, as far as I’m concerned, there is some.

You don’t buy your ‘unusual’ 15 yo son Y a hunting knife & a set of throwing knives especially in an era of youth knife crime. Wtf. However, we know boy Y did kick-boxing & his wider circle have connections with the sport, so maybe it was just a macho family environment. I definitely believe this to be so because of some of his macho slurs about other people in his text conversations with X.

As for girl X, seems to me the parents were too hands off. Allowed to watch horror films eg Nightmare on Elm St etc three years ago during lockdown as a 12 yo until she had run out of things to watch. Said Sweeney Todd with his ‘sharpest blade in the world’ was her favourite film & she’d watched it 6000 times.

Expelled from her previous school for selling cannabis gummies to other pupils four months before this murder but even after this school expulsion, parents weren’t checking her phone for dodgy dealings & she still had the TOR browser on there?

Ok this last one might produce some merriment & mirth, given what teenagers & their bedrooms can be like, but if the Mum had been on top of keeping her child’s bedroom tidy, as I am with mine, there might even been a chance she could have picked up that crumpled piece of paper out of the girls bedroom, thus thwarting the murder plan? But I suppose we have to give the parents the benefit of the doubt on that one.

It will be a shame if brick brained vigilantes cause either of X & Y’s parents to move, but looking at the whole picture, it’s probably just another lesson in life to suck up. Irresponsible parenting can & does lead to shitty outcomes in some cases.

I am sure there will be a review of everything relating to what happened to these young people. @coffeandrteav It’s not up people to judge, although they will. Clearly this is a major issue and needs a thorough review.

Some people will be satisfied with simple reasons like video games, horror movies in lockdown , the internet, lax parenting. I think it's always going to be a combination of multiple factors, plus things we couldn't explain or understand in terms of psychology and just brain chemistry.

@MummyPop00 You obviously don’t understand what the role of prison is. You don’t know exactly what has been going on with these dc. They are guilty but what you suggest is not what a humane society can consider. Do your children share your beliefs?

Really?
Not checking up on what 15 year olds are up to?

A lot about teenage parenting is a cat-and mouse game. It always has been and always will be. You absolutely use 'I trust you etc..' but seriously,how could any parent be so naive that they 100% always do and don't keep a healthy suspicion/constant vigilance around their otherwise good teen?

I can hardly believe that some parents have so easily given up and treat their child's phone like some 'no-go zone' that the child cannot be questioned on?
A good example of an alert parent stopping her teen son being more damaged than he is was in the news last week. She demanded his phone after some shifty behaviour and went straight to police with the messages from a 33yr old teacher who had him out for sex twice.

As a teenager who never got in any trouble,I most certainly did pull a few tricks and fibs. So why would I expect my teens not to be the same?🤔

Totally disagree-you don't know this.
Even a simple example -imagine if Mum X as she was dropping him off that afternoon had a random look at latest messages.
If you never look at their phone,they know they can be doing/saying anything on it.(Girl Y may have had an app that helped her view torture sites?)
However,if the regime in your house is that it can be picked up anytime without warning by the 'bill payers'-well,most teens won't like this but it will affect their behaviour.
And yes,of course they can delete-but if you know they've been sitting on the sofa sending & receiving loads & all gone-well you know they're up to something. And involved parents should be able to spot 'shifty' teen behaviour around it anyway.

Its the sort of thing girl x was probably fascinated by so I wouldnt shout this so loud.

Rehabilitation? After what these two have done, they should be locked up 24/7 in a blacked out 6x4 cell for the rest of their natural lives with only a shit bucket for company.

@SamcroAs we don’t have the death penalty, and these two are currently not adults, there is always a programme of rehabilitation. You cannot judge what they will become. Do you think they shouldn’t have to think about what they have done? I believe they should and take responsibility for it. When and if they can do this, there might be a slim chance of rehabilitation at a much later stage.

Having phones certainly wasn't what caused that poor child's death

I wonder if it was a Pauline Parker / Juliet Hulme type of relationship - two young people so enmeshed they spurred each other on, whereas had they not met, they'd have not killed.

Although looking at some of the things presented to the courts, perhaps they'd have ended up violent whatever the circumstances.

A heartbreaking tragedy, with moments of pure farce (calling Boy Y 'Tesco John Wick' in her phone contacts?) that can't take away from the stupid, senseless loss of a young life.

How does a small community recover from something like this?

Whats a normal household?

They allegedly came from normal households but what if something traumatic didn't happen to them? What if they really are just pretty unpleasant?

Thank you; I work in this field. Something traumatic will have happened to those children.

how do you rehabilitate a child that had sone something so vile?

To those who think the defence lawyers should not have “made excuses” for the guilty DC, can I just remind everyone: that’s their job. Everyone, even if guilty, is entitled to a defence. You might not like what’s said in defence, but a defence lawyer must defend but sometimes they defend the indefensible. As a nation we do know this is important.

I imagine there will be a review of how these children came to be murderers. What was going on in their lives and how they were “patented”? Now they are going to be named, there’s no hiding place for their families, professionals involved, or those who had concerns about them. We don’t know what will come to light.

We also have to try and believe in rehabilitation. It’s a life sentence for murder but efforts will be made to rehabilitate at some stage. Or it could be 70 years plus in prison. Something has gone catastrophically wrong with the lives of these children and we do need to know what so any concerned person feels able to express those concerns about others without fear.

I answered earlier on my position on smart phones, maybe you should go back and read it.

If you remember its what started you off on saying that I (and another poster) was not a parent

First, the poor child who got murdered. RIP

In my short time on MN, I have read disturbing threads of mums telling us their child attacks them, attacks/ slaps strangers, are violent without notice and are scared they will stab or injure them etc. One even admitted her child scammed someone online which is a crime, but because he has autism or whatever, she refused advice to report him to the police, reasoning that he does not appreciate what he is doing is wrong, so nothing can be done.

Violence, criminality- yet, we are being made to accept it is because they are neurodiverse (whatever that is) etc etc on here. I am surprised they have not started a standalone thread on this, following this murder, probably because they know the majority of people will not agree with them. Instead, the memories of this child whose name is the title of this thread, is being ambushed with such posts hoping none challenges them, or if they are challenged, they attack such posters online as their children attack them physically.

I have watched those threads in horror. Now, here we are. Of course when someone is raped or murdered by the kids whose mums have repeatedly posted and excused their behaviour on MN, the mum won't be posting here.

I have said my side. Off you go as per usual....

@FrippEnos
Your reality of parenting teens will be different from another parent, to dismiss someone else's experience is purely BS.
Which I have not done, and when I point this out to you you say:
You have dismissed others opinions because you do not believe that they are parents.

Two very different statements.
I have asked what your experience of parenting teens is, which you refuse to answer. I think this is relevant because parenting teens in the current environment throws up certain new challenges, challenges that you and some other posters don't seem to understand