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Problem with work contract, not sure what to do

42 replies

Trifletrifle · 20/12/2023 08:46

I’ve recently joined a tutoring group run by our local council. It’s on a self employed basis and I get termly contract with offers for work. I go into local schools to tutor children in my specific subject and parents pay the tutoring group who then pay me an hourly rate. Parents choose to either pay for 1-1 sessions or group sessions (with 2 or 3 children). Most parents pay for group sessions as it’s much cheaper for the parent.

At one of my schools, only one student has signed up for group tuition. Sessions need to be 20 minutes as per my contract. I have been delivering 20 minute sessions weekly, however, my contract stipulates it works on a ratio basis of 10 minutes per student. E.g if I see two students I claim 20 minutes, if I see 3 students it’s 30 minutes. I am allowed to see up to 3 students per 20 minute sessions.

I have recently discovered that the tutoring company will only pay me for 10 minutes for this session, despite delivering 20 minutes (my contract states each session must not be less than 20 minutes).

I have questioned this and have been told the expectation is for me to ‘increase my time’ or persuade the parent to pay for 1-1 sessions (which is twice the price for them). This particular school is in a deprived area and the parent cannot afford to pay the 1-1 fee and despite my efforts I have not been able to increase my time.

The tutor company have sent me a screenshot of the part of my contract which states I will receive 10 minutes pay per student, but have apologised for the ambiguity as each session must be minimum of 20 minutes.

As I am self employed I get no ‘perks’ which I accept, but this seems wrong to me so I messaged my line manager to say it’s not worth me travelling for this appointment to only be paid for 10 minutes but working for 20 minutes, and therefore won’t be continuing to see this student next term in the New Year. Manager has told me to explain the situation to the parent which I have. Parent has now made a complaint to the tutoring company stating how upset she is that her daughter has to discontinue lessons with me as she was making so much progress and was really enjoying her lessons with me.

I guess I am looking for advice as I really enjoy my job but this has soured things a bit for me and I am feeling awkward and feel my manager is really cross with me.

Any advice moving forward please?

OP posts:
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CoffeeCup14 · 25/12/2023 12:26

Sounds like how my daughter's music lessons work. I wanted a 20 minute group lesson but she was the only person who wanted to play that instrument. So she got a ten-minute individual lesson instead (I can't remember if I pay more).

autologo · 25/12/2023 07:49

Unfortunately, tutoring seems to be rife with these questionable working arrangements. For example, I work for a company that allocates me work as an online assessor (marking work), provides an invoice showing what I have worked, expects the work to be completed within a set time frame, monitors my work and issues mandatory training for the work. However, I pay my own tax (as self employed), I am not paid for holidays or sickness, and the work is insecure (no guarantee of allocations and allocations can be stopped with no notice and for no given reason.)

Like all workers in the 'gig' economy, I know I am being exploited, but I need the extra money (this is not my only job). Again, unfortunately, employers who adopt these arrangements, often depend on people who for one reason or another are vulnerable (perhaps they are carers and need flexibility in their work load, for example.) The situation is also often complex with the private company winning contracts with local authorities or colleges, showing the glowing CVs of their 'freelance' staff, and then cracking the whip for the freelancers to work for a rate of pay that is well below the standard rate, and in no way reflects the freelancers' qualifications or experience.

My advice OP would be to get out of this role as soon as possible. Look for other positions or perhaps set yourself up as a private tutor and see how that goes. I believe there is a 'Tutor' forum on Mumsnet that could advise you about how to take the first steps towards having your own business.

Here2talk · 25/12/2023 07:16

Can You not offer your services to the parent directly as you are self employed?

stichguru · 25/12/2023 00:01

This company is taking the absolute P*. LEAVE THEM! If you are self employed then you set the hours, the rates, when you work and where you work. You also have to sort all your own stuff. If you are not self-employed, you are an employee, the company sort your tax, NI contribution, finding the work, your rates, your hours, and your work plan and take a cut of your pay. This company are taking everything the deserve as employers, and doing none of what they should do as a company. If they want you to have a contract with stipulations, then there have to be benefits.

Fieldofbrokenpromises · 20/12/2023 12:24

IR35 only applies if OP delivers tuition through her own limited company, not through being self employed on her own account.

senua · 20/12/2023 10:38

As it is council run, the tutoring bit doesn’t have the power to alter contracts. If you contact the council about this directly you are told to contact the tutoring department.
If you want to go nuclear then speak to HMRC and they will set their rottweilers on it. Or you could always threaten to do this and see if that gets the agency's attention.
Obviously, though, this will not help cordial relations.

devildeepbluesea · 20/12/2023 10:36

@Trifletrifle have sent you a PM

Trifletrifle · 20/12/2023 10:22

devildeepbluesea · 20/12/2023 09:58

@Aprilx is absolutely correct in everything she says.

@Trifletrifle are you a music teacher? I ask because DD’s music teacher is having an almost identical issue with her council-run tutoring organisation. I work in HR and this really does have quite big implications, some of which have already been tested and proved incorrect in an employment tribunal.

Yes music tutor. I have spoken with colleagues who have been working for much longer with similar concerns. As it is council run, the tutoring bit doesn’t have the power to alter contracts. If you contact the council about this directly you are told to contact the tutoring department. 😬

The rates of pay are also well below average - even for this area, obviously it will vary a lot depending on region. Surprisingly some colleagues when I ask why they don’t just work independently see it as some kind or disloyalty! Anyway, I will see how it goes in the new year. I think what annoys me the most is charging parents top whack then paying tutors a pittance. I understand obviously it has budgets and needs to make a profit, but it also receives an awful lot of funding from grants from local authority and government. It would be fairer to charge parents slightly less and pay tutors slightly more- obviously this doesn’t make good financial or business sense to the local council.

It was also quite funny when I first told them my hourly rate (which is going rate for my area according to MU website), they basically smirked and offered £10 less per hour!

OP posts:
SedentaryCat · 20/12/2023 10:17

Hi @Trifletrifle Have you checked your status under IR35? There's some good, useful advice here (plus a questionnaire): https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

I co-own a small business that uses self-employed contractors and have had to go through this for all of them - you can keep the results as evidence to show HMRC if they question your status.

I am absolutely no expert, but from what they are saying, that you can't work for others, and that they dictate when you work, might have an impact on your IR35 status. Definitely check this out - speak with your accountant (if you have one).

Hope you get it sorted.

Check employment status for tax

Use the Check Employment Status for Tax (CEST) tool to find out if you, or a worker on a specific engagement, should be classed as employed or self-employed for tax purposes.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

GabriellaMontez · 20/12/2023 10:03

There are lots of agencies operating this way.

The schools turn a blind eye to this sort of operation.

What happens if a child is off sick?

devildeepbluesea · 20/12/2023 09:58

@Aprilx is absolutely correct in everything she says.

@Trifletrifle are you a music teacher? I ask because DD’s music teacher is having an almost identical issue with her council-run tutoring organisation. I work in HR and this really does have quite big implications, some of which have already been tested and proved incorrect in an employment tribunal.

SausageAndEggSandwich · 20/12/2023 09:53

@Trifletrifle others are correct - anyone can say they are self employed, but what determines whether you are self employed in reality and what HMRC are interested in for tax purposes is the nature of how you are directed in your work.

You are saying things about your contract and the type of work that you do that is raising concerns about whether this is legitimate self employment, or if the tutoring company are trying to pull a fast one regarding their responsibilities.

senua · 20/12/2023 09:46

And it can most definitely be ambiguous and there have been very many legal battles over employed vs self employed status, some very well known, Pimlico Plumbers was a big one, lots of gig economy related cases, have a google.
YY. See also Uber.

Aprilx · 20/12/2023 09:44

Trifletrifle · 20/12/2023 09:37

I am registered with HMRC as self employed and have a self employment number which needs to be included on my invoices to be paid. I therefore don’t think there is any ambiguity surrounding my self employed status, The issue is more with the contract, it is quite clear from the wording that I am self employed eg things like I must provide my own resources, public liability insurance, proof of completion safe guarding training, enhanced DBS check etc. (I obviously pay for all this myself), However, there are clauses about not working for competitors which makes me question the validity of the contract.

I am not very good with legal matters - I am just worried now as I also work independently for myself providing exactly the same service which obviously is competition. This is not a secret, I have my own website advertising exactly who I am and what I do, but I’m concerned I am in breach of my contract and will get into trouble.

As I said earlier this is a good avenue for me to have ‘guaranteed’ work as this tutoring company is well known and trusted within many schools in my area and therefore I don’t want to piss them off, which is why I posted about issue in my op.

No no no. Anybody can register as self employed with HMRC, they don’t check the nature of the engagement, that is for the individual / employer to ascertain.

That you have bought insurance and paid for your own DBS doesn’t make you self employed either, again you have got things back to front. The only thing that determines your employed / self employed status, is the nature of the contract for services.

And it can most definitely be ambiguous and there have been very many legal battles over employed vs self employed status, some very well known, Pimlico Plumbers was a big one, lots of gig economy related cases, have a google.

senua · 20/12/2023 09:44

I am registered with HMRC as self employed and have a self employment number which needs to be included on my invoices to be paid. I therefore don’t think there is any ambiguity surrounding my self employed status.
It is possible to be self-employed (in one job) and employed (in another job) at the same time. And HMRC will decide if you are SE / employed based on the facts: if they are not aware of the facts then they will go with your / the agency's version of events until the shit hits some fan somewhere.

PS. Did I read the OP right? - that the council have set up this agency, that the council are charging parents to make good the insufficiencies in their schools.ShockShockShock

123ZYX · 20/12/2023 09:42

HMRC will issue anyone a self assessment tax return etc - they don't immediately look into the details. It's only if they open an enquiry that they'd get enough information to decide either way (this would impact on the the other party, not you. HMRC generally gross up, assuming what you paid is net, and the employer pay the missing PAYE and NI and penalty)

If I were you, I would talk to ACAS to get some advice

Trifletrifle · 20/12/2023 09:37

I am registered with HMRC as self employed and have a self employment number which needs to be included on my invoices to be paid. I therefore don’t think there is any ambiguity surrounding my self employed status, The issue is more with the contract, it is quite clear from the wording that I am self employed eg things like I must provide my own resources, public liability insurance, proof of completion safe guarding training, enhanced DBS check etc. (I obviously pay for all this myself), However, there are clauses about not working for competitors which makes me question the validity of the contract.

I am not very good with legal matters - I am just worried now as I also work independently for myself providing exactly the same service which obviously is competition. This is not a secret, I have my own website advertising exactly who I am and what I do, but I’m concerned I am in breach of my contract and will get into trouble.

As I said earlier this is a good avenue for me to have ‘guaranteed’ work as this tutoring company is well known and trusted within many schools in my area and therefore I don’t want to piss them off, which is why I posted about issue in my op.

OP posts:
Itsallfunngamesuntil · 20/12/2023 09:36

Yes I understand. I should have said 'minimum wage'

hookiewookie29 · 20/12/2023 09:33

You are self employed. I am self employed. I set my own fees, hours,pay my own NU and tax etc. My clients are given a bill at the end if the month and they pay it. They're taking the mickey. Start putting your foot down and if they want to call the shots then they can employ you and pay your contributions as well as holiday pay and sick pay!

IgnoranceNotOk · 20/12/2023 09:30

YANBU
It doesn’t sound worth it for such short sessions and travelling between schools.

I have a similar job (my second job) but each pupil is an hour and I get paid my mileage back. It is zero hours but I they add on accrued holiday pay. I wouldn’t bother if it was shorter than an hour per school!

If it’s adding to your reputation and that will help you in the short term then that’s the only reason to put up with it for now but I wouldn’t worry about annoying parents or the council as I bet they were just glad you were putting up with the ten min pay for one pupil.

Aprilx · 20/12/2023 09:29

Trifletrifle · 20/12/2023 09:02

I am self employed as in I am paid by the hour, pay my own tax / NI, receive no holiday, sick pay or pension. Yes sorry you’re right, this person is not really my manager, just not sure what to call them. Basically my contact at the company who offers me work and who I contact with any issues. I work independently (for myself) and for this company. It also states in my contract that I am not allowed to work for any other business seen to be a competitor- however, I find this confusing as I thought being self employed means you can work for who you want.

No you are not self employed “because you are paid by the hour and pay your own NI”. That is the tail wagging the dog. Whether you are employed or self employed depends on the nature of the engagement not how you are paid. And then once the nature of the engagement has been determined, that drives how you should be paid, not the other way around. You need to be very clear in your own mind about this in order to argue your case clearly.

Contact is as good a word as any for the person you deal with. Definitely not manager. And no, whilst the organisation wishes to treat this as self employment, they cannot tell you that you cannot take other jobs. I wouldn’t say this is always the case, a big company might choose not to engage with a particular third party for a particular service if they know the third party also works with their great rival and they want to ensure trade secrets are not leaked, but that is a choice, they cannot mandate it and I cannot see any way in which that could apply to you.

Frankly this tutoring company are taking the absolute piss. They expect you to act like their employee whilst simultaneously refusing to grant you the benefits of being an employee. You need to tell them they can’t have it both ways. This could be self employment, but if it is, you get to set your pay rates which they can choose to accept or not, you choose which jobs to accept and you can do whatever you wish in your spare time including accepting other contracts.

LIZS · 20/12/2023 09:26

If your hours are dictated by the tutor group you are not se. Surely if you deliver 20 minutes to one student , on a "group" basis the minimum you get paid is 20 minutes. Tbh I'm surprised such short sessions are even viable for you to take.

Doggymummar · 20/12/2023 09:25

Sounds like you are an agency worker rather than self employed.

shearwater2 · 20/12/2023 09:24

Yes, another step would be reporting them for false self-employment.

I would also talk to the council and other tutors if you can, join a teaching union and challenge them on it. They may even be committing fraud and accepting public money for 20 minutes per student but paying ten. It just stinks to high heaven to me anyway.

sandyhappypeople · 20/12/2023 09:24

Why has the parent been allowed to book into a group session with only one? Surely the tutoring company should have informed them that as they were the only person the only way to proceed is if they paid one on one, not just let them proceed with a group booking.

how do the parents book? Is it through you or the company? If it’s the company you should be having to ‘explain’ anything to the parents and they should be dealing with this directly.

you probably should have nipped this in the bud straight away, I feel a bit sorry for the student, but the tutoring company need to know they can’t take advantage of you in this way, so you’ve done the right thing.

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