Schools stereotyping autism.

Beenpo it is interesting that when on medication both the adhd and asd traits disappeared because I know of several people diagnosed with both as adults who were diagnosed with asd after starting adhd medication because their asd traits were so much more obvious to them once the adhd was under control somewhat. Just goes to show that how we all have different ways of presenting, medication can effect us all in different ways.

Sounds like they are peas in a pod! My DS is 9 as well. I also have diagnosed ADHD and find it easier to see ADHD traits in him because they are like me.

Thanks for that - sounds a lot like my DS, though he isn't massively physically hyperactive. In fact it's his chatty, engaged, flexible nature which makes him 'unusual' - it's almost as if he would never think to be anxious or shy or concerned about change because he's engaging with the world on a slightly different plain where those things aren't important.

For instance he's often quite oblivious to "social rules" - he'll just march up to a complete stranger and ask them a question.

I think this sterotyping is encouraged by the way a lot of support in schools is provided. For example OTs are in such short supply, the LA sends out an OT toolkit of things to try but without the assessment and training of an OT to guide which bits are appropriate. So you end up with children who need to be lifting heavy things to help one of their senses, being offered a tent in the corner as it was on the list and a different child with different needs got on with it. Its the same with SaLT. They get a toolkit.
And with minimal EP input you get stuff like lack of imagination assumed or expectations of being good at maths or art.

Sorry for derailing your thread, but what are their ASD traits if you don't mind me asking?

Edit - that was supposed to quote @Beenpo

@BadSpellaSpellaSpella ha everyone always asks about maths. I turned around once and asked if he'd be good because he's Asian or autistic...that soon shut that person up.

With respect to using the term 'label', I do apologise for any offence I may have caused. Autism is a diagnosis, but diagnosis does involve diagnostic labelling.

For example, there have been many diagnostic 'labels' applied to try to distinguish between the various presentations of autism. Prior to revisions in the DSM V and ICD 11, the labels (yes, they were diagnostic labels) of 'Asperger syndrome' Kanner autism, PDD-NOS (in the USA) or atypical autism (sometimes used in the UK) may have been used. Even labels such as 'High Functioning Autism' could be applied, but this was a controversial label for many reasons.

The terminology used to describe the different presentations of autism are now primarily used to imply anticipated support needs. Yet it is still labelling.

My own preference is to use the term 'neurodivergent', yet even this label can be controversial due to the generalising properties of the term, and, the perhaps well founded argument, that the term may inadvertently exclude the consideration of autism (and other conditions) as a disability.

These are just my own opinions. I realise there will be many people who have very different perspectives.

This is an interesting thread as I suspect my DS has ADHD and I've also been questionning ASD but he's very flexible - I'd say he's more adaptable to new environments than the average child - and a lot of what I've read about ASD makes me feel that difficulty with change and transitions is practically a defining feature of ASD.

So it's interesting to hear from people with children with diagnosed ASD who are similarly adaptable.

I was told at a parents evening when ds was 7 that they weren't too worried that he was behind in maths as 'he'll catch up as they tend to be good at numbers'

He's now 15 and still rubbish at maths.

Just like his NT peers, my son has his needs met when his teachers have the time, energy and resources to be able to get to know him and what helps the most. Many teachers are so stretched in terms of these things, but they do genuinely want to do a good job. This is when they end up using previous experience with young people with ASD, or the information they have been given on training courses to try their best for him. I am very grateful when teachers who are teaching hundreds of young people each week, including young people who are NT in a myriad of ways seem to at least be trying to meet his needs.

A lot of the school curriculum requires children to sort of switch their imagination on 'on demand' as it were. Autistic children who, as you say, can create highly imaginative worlds, stories etc, often struggle to use their imagination to create something to meet a criteria provided by someone else. So yes, you're right - no imagination is completely inaccurate - difficulties using imagination in the way the school curriculum requires - possible.

Me too.

(Also, it's the end of term and teachers are stressed and tired, most are probably trying their best).

As a teacher, I have taught autistic children who are ok with routine changes but when I say this to parents, I'm told they're masking in school and parents are having to deal with massively dysregulated behaviour when the child arrives home on any day there has been a change of routine.

I got told (by the SEN coordinator, no less) that my DD had "no imagination, because of her autism".

Riiiiiight. This is the same child who lives almost entirely in a dream world of her own making, and writes epic, pages-long stories about it, with a vast array of characters she's completely invented, is it?

QuestBloomingdale

You too are demonstrating ignorance and are stereotyping.

“The DSM-5 Manual defines autism spectrum disorder as “persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction” and “restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests” (this includes sensory behaviour), present since early childhood, to the extent that these “limit and impair everyday functioning”.

There isn’t 10 criteria. The criteria is as above. You don’t need to play badly or be able to handle transitions to get a diagnosis.🙄And many many women and girls mask so will copy play and camouflage to manage situations.

SingleMum11

It’s a hugely helpful diagnosis. You get a report individual to you. My DD’s has enabled her to have treatment adjusted to her presentation which has saved her life. My son is getting a huge amount of reasonable adjustment honed to his report in a service supporting him and my autism report has changed my life.

'It is that time of year plys being the end of a mega-long term applues to all the kids i work with atm

But many other diagnoses can be so broad too.

Can people stop calling it a label? It's a diagnosis. Or would you really call a physical disability a label too?

Yes, I would say it is not only schools but also the health and social care sector. However, as other posters have said, the stereotyping is rife in society as well. We still have media tropes of autism (usually the really intelligent man with no social skills). This character makes a perfect foil for the more emotionally relatable neurotypical characters. We have ideas of the 'typical' autistic child or 'typical' autistic person in society, and when individuals do not match these stereotypes, we can be surprised.

Yet, to get to the point, when my eldest son received his diagnosis (at the age of seven), I was really surprised at how his reports and even his statement (this was prior to EHCPs) described his autistic presentation. His speech was described as 'monotone', he 'struggled to understand figurative language and humour' and so on. These were not traits we recognised at home.

When I entered teaching (further and higher education), we had 'autism awareness' courses. Now, some of these courses are excellent, but at the time we undertook them, they encouraged stereotypes, whilst promoting a person-centred approach.

Perhaps the worst or most dangerous aspect of the stereotyping is diagnostic overshadowing. For my eldest son, his serious mental illness was undiagnosed and untreated for far too long because there was an assumption from professionals, and therefore from us, that the symptoms he was exhibiting were due to autism (e.g. 'He's not hearing voices; he just does not understand his internal monologue due to ...'). For my youngest, his own neurodiversity went unrecognised due to his brother's diagnostic label (e.g. 'He's not autistic; he's just copying/reacting to his brother').

(I really must stop these rambling posts).

I just think that autism is such a broad diagnosis that it’s not a helpful diagnosis. It doesn't give information about what the child needs in terms of support.

I now try not to talk about DS having autism but instead talk about his specific needs and strengths.

Most teachers have very little time to get to know a specific child and have zero training or very little. So that is never going to cover the nuances and complexities.

Too right. I knew as soon as I saw the thread someone from the label police would be on here.

@DragonMama3 Asperger's is not used - long story. It got replaced with High Functioning Autism

Don't be a dick and correct people. Yes, everyone knows the DM was amended. However, some people still identify as that and don’t need dicks correcting them.

My (adult) child was diagnosed as such when the term was in the DM. They, along with many others identify with this as opposed to what many, including many clinicians in the field, believe was an ill-thought out move when it was removed from the DM and they were ‘rebranded’. They can identify as whatever they want. Anyone can.

You would get short shrift if you tried to educate my (adult) child that they no longer had Asperger’s but instead have ASD. They do not believe it is better or worse than ASD, just that it is completely different. That’s also encouraged by a few dev paeds, general paeds and psychiatrists who have voiced their opinion in front of them that the change was nuts.