Page 18 | Is this a middle class saying?

Toblecorleone · 2023-12-17T19:36:15+00:00

Light hearted! earlier today DH and I took DD to a small petting zoo type place. Not many people there and at one point it was just us and another woman with a girl aged about 3. Woman seemed quite posh, well spoken, both dressed rather posh - the woman was explaining something about guinea pigs to her daughter and then broke off and said “do you want bog?” The girl said she did so off they went to find the toilets. I was quite suprised by the this phrase from someone who seemed so well spoken but DH says it’s a very middle class saying and he’d have thought “toilet” would have sounded more “common”. I totally disagree!! Before anyone starts I know it doesn’t matter, I’m just amused by it and interested in how others would perceive this saying?! YABU - Bog is very middle class YANBU - bog is common talk

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 14:31

I'm not posh though (my Mum's Mum was). I'll have to ask my Mum what she called the toilet as I can't remember.

Damnloginpopup · 19/12/2023 14:32

Twalett anyone?

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 14:38

Damnloginpopup · 19/12/2023 14:32

Twalett anyone?

😄

sunglassesonthetable · 19/12/2023 14:41

I wouldn't say Want bog? to a small child. I would say Do you need the toilet?

But people do speak to small children like that. Sort of simplifying.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 15:52

Do any posters call their Parents Mummy & Daddy? My Mum and her Sisters did. I always found it odd.

IDoughnutKnow · 19/12/2023 16:31

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 15:52

Do any posters call their Parents Mummy & Daddy? My Mum and her Sisters did. I always found it odd.

I do, and my (adult) children call us Mummy and Daddy too. Occasionally they use invented words beginning with M and D.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 16:46

IDoughnutKnow · 19/12/2023 16:31

I do, and my (adult) children call us Mummy and Daddy too. Occasionally they use invented words beginning with M and D.

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You are very posh. I've just seen your comment about the only person you have heard calling a toilet a toilet is your builder.

Flamesatmytoes · 19/12/2023 16:54

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 15:52

Do any posters call their Parents Mummy & Daddy? My Mum and her Sisters did. I always found it odd.

My ex-colleague in her 70’s still does. Her Mummy is 96 😍
My teenage DC do too. I think it’s more common now.

IDoughnutKnow · 19/12/2023 17:48

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 16:46

You are very posh. I've just seen your comment about the only person you have heard calling a toilet a toilet is your builder.

Edited

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In my defence, that is when they are installing them, when it's the correct word (unless you're using 'pan' and 'cistern'). I don't go around judging my builders for their use of 'toilet'. I have yet to ascertain what they call it when they're using it. I suspect their lavatorial words are very similar to my DC's.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 18:06

IDoughnutKnow · 19/12/2023 17:48

In my defence, that is when they are installing them, when it's the correct word (unless you're using 'pan' and 'cistern'). I don't go around judging my builders for their use of 'toilet'. I have yet to ascertain what they call it when they're using it. I suspect their lavatorial words are very similar to my DC's.

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Do you judge people who say they are going to the toilet? I'm not offended by the way. My Grandma used to judge people and it used to make the family laugh.

IDoughnutKnow · 19/12/2023 18:14

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 18:06

Do you judge people who say they are going to the toilet? I'm not offended by the way. My Grandma used to judge people and it used to make the family laugh.

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The honest answer is that I think I do (judge). But it's relatively low down on the list of things for which I judge people. I think we all do it, a bit. Someone is probably judging me at this very moment for starting a sentence with "but".

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 18:19

IDoughnutKnow · 19/12/2023 18:14

The honest answer is that I think I do (judge). But it's relatively low down on the list of things for which I judge people. I think we all do it, a bit. Someone is probably judging me at this very moment for starting a sentence with "but".

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😀Yes, of course people judge others for different reasons.

The family judged my Grandma but not in a nasty way, it was funny because we didn't agree.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 19/12/2023 20:21

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 15:52

Do any posters call their Parents Mummy & Daddy? My Mum and her Sisters did. I always found it odd.

Either Mummy & Daddy or I used their first names. Siblings all do as well. My father called his parents M'ma and P'pa .

Teen DD calls me Mum most of the time.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 20:46

I find this so interesting. People judge people for being more common than them and people are judging people for looking down on people.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 20:50

I just like a person if they are warm, kind & funny. I don't care what they call the place they pee.

My Mum's family were posher than my Dad's so have seen both sides.

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 19/12/2023 21:13

I see this a lot on Pedants’ Corner. Someone will denounce a common colloquialism, regionalism or Americanism they’ve heard recently such as saying bathroom instead of toilet, and a lot of posters will happily agree how reprehensible it is. Then the descriptivists will arrive to sneer at the people who sneer at the people who say bathroom instead of toilet and so it goes on or at least it ought to.

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 19/12/2023 21:28

Corgiowner · 17/12/2023 20:19

John Benjaman wrote a brilliant poem about it called How To Get On In Society:

Phone for the fish knives, Norman
As cook is a little unnerved;
You kiddies have crumpled the serviettes
And I must have things daintily served.

Are the requisites all in the toilet?
The frills round the cutlets can wait
Till the girl has replenished the cruets
And switched on the logs in the grate.

It's ever so close in the lounge dear,
But the vestibule's comfy for tea
And Howard is riding on horseback
So do come and take some with me

Now here is a fork for your pastries
And do use the couch for your feet;
I know that I wanted to ask you-
Is trifle sufficient for sweet?

Milk and then just as it comes dear?
I'm afraid the preserve's full of stones;
Beg pardon, I'm soiling the doileys
With afternoon tea-cakes and scones.

The trouble with the people who wince at every line of Betjeman’s poem is that the real taboo is making an effort: preferring the long word to the short and the French to the Anglo-Saxon and so on, as if trying to get on in society really is somehow contemptible.

rainbowbee · 19/12/2023 21:52

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 15:52

Do any posters call their Parents Mummy & Daddy? My Mum and her Sisters did. I always found it odd.

We do. I don't think it's posh; it's possibly just a Northern Irish thing, at least to me. My friends from NI do too.

GonksAreNotJustForChristmas · 19/12/2023 22:01

rainbowbee · 19/12/2023 21:52

We do. I don't think it's posh; it's possibly just a Northern Irish thing, at least to me. My friends from NI do too.

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I bet your Grandma was not as judgy as mine though. I got more love off of the less posh Grandma. She had high morals too but just didn't spend time judging other people.

Walkaround · 21/12/2023 08:31

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 19/12/2023 21:28

The trouble with the people who wince at every line of Betjeman’s poem is that the real taboo is making an effort: preferring the long word to the short and the French to the Anglo-Saxon and so on, as if trying to get on in society really is somehow contemptible.

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The real taboo is making a pointless effort.

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 21/12/2023 10:24

Walkaround · 21/12/2023 08:31

The real taboo is making a pointless effort.

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Yes. I see that, but the underlying message is don’t try.

Walkaround · 21/12/2023 10:34

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 21/12/2023 10:24

Yes. I see that, but the underlying message is don’t try.

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Well, it is better not to try if you are focused on trivia. Did anyone ever get on in society because they used the word “napkin” instead of “serviette”? If you want to get on in society, you need to be able to tell the difference between making yourself relevant regardless of your choice of words, and making it obvious how irrelevant you are to those you are trying to impress or fit in with.

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 21/12/2023 17:40

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 21/12/2023 10:24

Yes. I see that, but the underlying message is don’t try.

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Fair play to the woman she has got on well enough to bag a husband who can afford at least two servants while she concerns herself with trivia. We also don’t know who’s coming to dinner. Given there was room at the top, the guests may be similarly nouveau riche and impressed with doilies and daintiness. We don’t know. The poet doesn’t care because to him she’s intrinsically ridiculous even if nobody notices.
I admit he does a brilliant job of making her ridiculous but she’s not the only one concerned with trivia.
No. Nobody gets on purely by getting all the shibboleths right, but they obviously are held back by not knowing them.

Walkaround · 21/12/2023 18:35

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 21/12/2023 17:40

Fair play to the woman she has got on well enough to bag a husband who can afford at least two servants while she concerns herself with trivia. We also don’t know who’s coming to dinner. Given there was room at the top, the guests may be similarly nouveau riche and impressed with doilies and daintiness. We don’t know. The poet doesn’t care because to him she’s intrinsically ridiculous even if nobody notices.
I admit he does a brilliant job of making her ridiculous but she’s not the only one concerned with trivia.
No. Nobody gets on purely by getting all the shibboleths right, but they obviously are held back by not knowing them.

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@WhatWouldJeevesDo - I don’t think someone is held back or advanced by any of the inanities specifically referred to in the poem, whether they get them “right” or “wrong.” The woman in the poem would in reality be no further ahead or behind in society if she said “napkin” instead of “serviette,” or used a doily or did not, she would simply look less silly if she spent less time focusing on irrelevancies and expecting others to do the same, especially since she is getting it all “wrong,” in any event, if she wishes to get ahead in a classist society. All she is doing is appealing to other people with similar preoccupations, which is not the same thing as getting on in society.

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 21/12/2023 20:09

Walkaround · 21/12/2023 18:35

@WhatWouldJeevesDo - I don’t think someone is held back or advanced by any of the inanities specifically referred to in the poem, whether they get them “right” or “wrong.” The woman in the poem would in reality be no further ahead or behind in society if she said “napkin” instead of “serviette,” or used a doily or did not, she would simply look less silly if she spent less time focusing on irrelevancies and expecting others to do the same, especially since she is getting it all “wrong,” in any event, if she wishes to get ahead in a classist society. All she is doing is appealing to other people with similar preoccupations, which is not the same thing as getting on in society.

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You are more optimistic than me.