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AIBU?

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Original poster

To let dd decide?

40 replies

dddecide · 13/12/2023 12:18

Feeling awful and just looking for outside perspective. Apologies for length. Dd is 12, her dad lives the other side of the country. We’ve had the arrangement for many years that dd spends half of all the holidays with him. She has always struggled with this, she never wants to go and doesn’t want to leave me for long periods of time. I feel her dad has never been sensitive to this, and instead has always taken it personally and been annoyed that her not wanting to go hurts his feelings so over the years she has learnt to try to hide her upset about going so as not to upset him. I’ve done my best to be positive about their visits, reminding her that she does often have nice times while visiting etc. Dd also video calls him 3x a week (also often complains about having to do this, I think it now feels like a chore to her). She’s becoming much more ‘teenagery’, stroppy, selfish, a bit uncaring, doesn’t want to do things etc so I feel a bit conflicted atm because she’s not being especially reasonable, but I also understand her feelings about the situation.

I really feel that I’ve done my best to facilitate their relationship, and I’ve always been very sensitive to, and considerate of, her dads feelings and the challenges of the situation. I often wonder if I’ve been TOO considerate, at the expense of dds feelings. And I worry that by continuing to insist she visit I’m doing damage to her, as well as my own relationship with her.

Dd has been expressing upset about visiting for Xmas and we discussed the things that were making her feel reluctant to go. They were issues that could be worked on, so I messaged her dad to discuss and his reaction was very negative. (I can totally understand the upset because it must be incredibly hurtful to feel like your child doesn’t want to see you. I did make it clear that dd had said she wanted to see him, but was just worried about these things). He was not receptive at all, and imo was only talking about how he felt about everything and didn’t really give dds feelings much consideration at all. He also insulted my parenting a bit but I’m not overly bothered about that, though it was a bit upsetting and made me question myself.

Dd had seemingly been happy to go if these issues were addressed, but following his reaction has now said she doesn’t want to go. She understands some of the potential consequences of this decision and is sticking by it (I fear this will be the end of their relationship as I think there’s a good chance he’ll say not to bother in future). Aibu to let her decide at this point not to go? I’m genuinely upset for her dad, but DDs feelings have to be my priority.

Will answer any qs people feel may be relevant, didn’t want post to be even longer so may have missed important information (or included irrelevant information!).. please try not to be too harsh on me, I’ve really tried my best and I know I’ve got it wrong at times but I’ve really tried.

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Original poster
dddecide · 20/12/2023 12:42

Thank you 🙏

It's just so infuriating. They're treating her as if she's said she never wants to see them again or something!

She doesn't seem too upset by it at the moment at least. I hope my ongoing reassurance is enough.

OP posts:
Whattodo112222 · 19/12/2023 23:23

He's a bitter little man child and your DD is better off without that. There are an abundance of things he could do to alter contact arrangements or address the underlying issues but he chooses not to because he wants it all on his terms.

Unfortunately, being in control is much more important than seeing his daughter on her terms quite clearly.

Don't let her feel rejected, shower her with extra love, spoil her and make her feel special, particularly for having the courage to be assertive. That takes a lot of guts.

And be proud of yourself OP. You've done everything you can to facilitate the weaslemans relationship with his daughter. She's old enough to make her own decisions regarding contact, if he doesn't want to relent then he will be the reason the relationship does not continue.

Crazycrazylady · 19/12/2023 20:36

Honestly op.it's fine to say to your daughter that her fathers sulk in reaction to her voicing her opinion is totally unnecessary and juvenile and petty and she should not feel responsible for a grown man's tantrum.

Honestly op. From what you said he's really not that much addition to her life as his refusal to stop fighting in her presence ahow.

Original poster
dddecide · 19/12/2023 20:19

Well it's a week later and they haven't had a chat at all. Dd tried to call on weds, her dad said talk tomorrow. She tried again on Thursday and he said can't talk, let's see tomorrow (😡) but dd had plans on Friday so said she couldn't talk. Yesterday was one of their usual days and I said to dd she could call if she wanted to, but if she wanted to leave it for him to contact that was fine. So she didn't call and we haven't heard from him.

I'm so angry with him. On the one hand, it's making it a lot easier for me now because I feel totally justified in supporting dd with this choice. But I'm upset that she's now being rejected by him just for expressing her feelings and asserting herself (for the first time ever!).

OP posts:
Original poster
dddecide · 13/12/2023 21:33

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond, it has been very reassuring ❤️

I've told dd it's completely up to her and I'll support her no matter what happens. She seems pretty confident and sure that she's happy with her decision. I don't know what will happen going forward but I'll just do my best to navigate it with her, hopefully making sure we're doing what's best for her.

I had some more back and forth with her dad which continued to go badly despite my best efforts to keep things civil and productive. I've left it as they're going to have a chat about things tomorrow, and I really hope he will approach that conversation having taken the things I've said onboard.

Thanks again x

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 13/12/2023 21:15

EdinGirl · 13/12/2023 12:21

You absolutely shouldn't force her and his reaction shows he cares more about his feelings than his daughter's comfort.

But I would also keep records of all the messages to show you are trying to facilitate the relationship in case he goes the legal route.

This absolutely this.

The fact you think his reaction may be the end of their relationship is very telling. She's a child not an accessory for him. If he can't put his child's feeling above his own then don't force her.

My kids hate going to theor dads but we have a court order and they are still young so I still make them go. My ex is very much HIS kids as in his property not his responsibility. My step kids love to visit their dad because he sees them as people not his progeny

FarewellLeicesterSquare · 13/12/2023 17:04

I have just re-read your post where you wrote that you feel it’s WRONG - in capitals - to make her go.

And about him shouting. 🥲

I hope it has helped with your decision-making to see that written down. I would trust your gut on this op!

I think you might be feeling torn or guilty because he’s financially hard up but that really isn’t your fault or responsibility.

Sodndashitall · 13/12/2023 17:03

You sound lovely OP ! And very considerate.
I think you need to set some red lines, she absolutely needs to see her dad over Xmas. Your ex can't "make" a teen do anything so I think her requests are reasonable and I'd suggest that she goes and calls her Dad out on the things she's asked for. So if they argue ... she says Dad I asked you not to storm off. If she wants to go and do something, she says Dad I asked to go and do an activity.
If it doesn't work this time then you can tell her that she can set the duration for future visits. So seeing him not optional but how and when is. And she can ask that he visits her rather than the other way round. If he declines then that's his problem

FluffyChemical · 13/12/2023 17:02

I get your point but if you lose your dad because his feelings got hurt you didn't want to spend Christmas at his stressful, argumentative house with naff all to do perhaps it is not a great loss. Any half decent parent would deal with their hurt feelings, move on as the grown adult then make reasonable changes to make connections with their child as they grow into a teenager. You can't go bending over backwards to please people at the expense of your own emotional wellbeing (I appreciate you were not suggesting that in your post). This is 100% on him to start making changes or accept that his father-daughter relationship will deteriorate.

waterrat · 13/12/2023 16:53

He isnt making any effort to come to where she is...emotionally or physically in person.

Enough op..you and she have done enough.

It sounds lile a horrible experience for her and its awful that he has almost never visited her. Its also really horrible thst he wonr shorten thr visit because its not worth the petrol

I can imagine at 12 how long a week must feel doing nothing and going nowhere

Its time to let her say no

Smartiepants79 · 13/12/2023 16:53

The only thing I’ll add here is that I would doubt that she truly understands the long term consequences of this choice. She’s only 12 and kids this age are not know for their great decision making skills or understanding of the consequences of their behaviour.
At the end of the day it is his issue and shows where his priorities are but she will lose her dad (maybe). She probably doesn’t understand this

FarewellLeicesterSquare · 13/12/2023 16:43

Perhaps one way of communicating all of this to your ex without him getting difficult, is to talk about how your dd is nearly a teen and this is a different stage of life, and naturally she has ideas of her own now and wants to spend more time with her friends and less time with you as well op (white lie).

Focus on the fact that she is growing up and how “we” parents have to change alongside her. That the old arrangement may not work any more.

I don’t really think that you should have to protect his feelings when he hasn’t put enough effort in to the relationship and so he has brought this problem on himself. I’m only suggesting it because the less hassle he creates the better it is for your dd. Good luck.

FluffyChemical · 13/12/2023 16:03

To your credit you obviously have your daughter's emotional wellbeing at the heart of this decision and have given it a lot of thought. Your ex seems to be primarily concerned with how it has affected his own ego and nobody else. You really have been going above and beyond to make this work long term and encourage that relationship. You've done enough.

At 12 years old it is time to let her make her own choice. Teenagers develop their own social circle and she will likely want to connect with him less than 3 times a week as her priorities change. He is just going to have to be the grown up and suck this up for a while. From experience, it is really bad for you mental and emotional health as a child to spend time with adults who do not validate your emotions and cause you to feel anxious and unsettled. If she doesn't want to go, don't make her. Her reasons are valid in my opinion, it sounds a stressful environment. Agree with other posters suggestions that he can come and get a cheap airbnb in the area and meet up for day visits without his mum in tow.

For what it's worth you sound like you're doing a good job 😊

RobertaFirmino · 13/12/2023 15:44

Well, she's 12. Not a little girl anymore. Let her make her own decision. Ex can take it to court if he wants but I very much doubt the judge would force anything.

DisforDarkChocolate · 13/12/2023 15:36

@Iskpugkk your husband sounds a much more engaged parent than the OP's ex is. Children need to know they are worth making an effort for.

Iskpugkk · 13/12/2023 14:10

DH had this situation with his DD a few years ago; we live a distance away and she became unsure about visiting. We made a big effort to travel to where she lives and stay there more often even if only overnight and also took her to stay nearby. We didn’t have loads of money so did this as cheaply as possible. I don’t really agree with letting a child decide as they don’t and can’t understand the long year consequences but I also think that if her dad can’t see it from her point of view and make reasonable adjustments then you’re fighting a losing battle.
I would put it back on him though and say that your DD is saying this and it’s up to him to make her feel that she wants to come

lanthanum · 13/12/2023 14:00

I'd suggest that as she's not happy going for that long, that he come and get an AirBnB or something near you - it would halve the travel for him, remove his mum from the equation, and there might be things from DD's life she'd be able to share with him - taking him to her favourite places to go, introducing him to her friends, and so on. He's obviously going to feel hurt if she doesn't go, but if he can see that you're trying to encourage at least some contact, it will be harder for him to blame you.

Pineapplewaves · 13/12/2023 13:36

I'd be saying "DD came to yours last time, it's your turn to come here". If petrol is too expensive there's public transport and he doesn't need to stay in a five star hotel, a cheap holiday let or a hostel would do.

Original poster
dddecide · 13/12/2023 13:27

Thank you everyone for responses.

I really do feel like it's just WRONG to make her go when she obviously doesn't want to (and when I feel like her reasons are completely valid!). And I've pretty much always felt like that, but when she was younger I knew she couldn't properly understand the consequences of not going and not having that relationship. And I didn't want to hold her back because all children have to learn to cope with separation anxiety etc.

And even though he sounds pretty shit from the relevant information I've shared, he's not a bad person and he does love her and he's always just wanted to have a good relationship with her. But as some have said, it's always had to be on his terms. And now she's old enough to assert her own terms and if he can't accept that she's allowed her own boundaries etc then that's his problem.

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UseOfWeapons · 13/12/2023 13:27

Absolutely agree with most of the PP. You sound lovely, but yes, time to let your daughter decide. She’s old enough, and he’s not making any effort. She sounds like a sensible lass, and seeing her dad isn’t making her feel excited, it’s making her upset. He clearly has no insight into his behaviour or even open to any changes to accommodate her needs. She nearly a teenager.
Totally realise this will be a tricky one for you to navigate, but you’ve got your DD’s feelings to consider first. He can work around her and you, or just not see her for a while. His loss.

takealettermsjones · 13/12/2023 13:14

Wow... So she wants to not witness slanging matches and to go outside occasionally? She sounds infinitely reasonable and I would 100% keep her home! He can travel to her, the lazy git.

Original poster
dddecide · 13/12/2023 13:06

FarewellLeicesterSquare · 13/12/2023 12:59

Just really wanted to say that whatever you decide, your daughter is really, really lucky to have you as a mother op. You sound incredibly caring, intelligent, and sensitive to her needs , and so concerned to do right by everyone, and you have have made huge efforts. This doesn’t seem to be the case for your ex.

Love is a verb so take note of his actions not his words. Is he being belligerent bc he really wants to see your dd or because his ego is hurt?

And of course the irony is that it’s only natural that your dd will be reluctant to stay with her dad being as he is, and of course he has no self awareness of the very characteristics that contributed to that reluctance!

I have no experience of these situations but as you don’t appear to have any legal agreement to fulfill, I think it’s time to let dd to decide. It’s very difficult though isn’t it as young adolescents don’t always know what is best for them. Nor do you want her to blame you when she is older for not making her go on contact visits.

Could you and your ex afford a couple of sessions of mediation to sort this out? We have used a professional mediation company to resolve a professional issue at work and it was incredibly effective.

Thank you, this actually made me tear up a little. I've always just wanted to do right by everyone and actually I fear by trying to do that I've made things worse.

I actually had never considered mediation, and I don't think DDs dad would be interested, but perhaps that's something to consider as last resort.

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Whattodo112222 · 13/12/2023 13:06

At 12 years old.. yes let her decide. If her father took it to court it'd be a big waste of time as at 12 years old the court would listen to her. They wouldn't force a child of her age to go.

You've been exceptionally facilitating of his relationship with her, in fact you sound like the main driver of keeping the relationship.

You mustn't force her. Validate her feelings and make it clear its her decision and her feelings are respected.

Hankunamatata · 13/12/2023 13:03

What are the issues? How does dd know his reaction if you were privately messaging with him?

Original poster
dddecide · 13/12/2023 13:03

Crababbles · 13/12/2023 12:45

I’d insist on her seeing him over the Christmas break but not necessarily for the full week or however long she’s supposed to go for.

What are the issues she’s raised? It makes a difference if it’s legitimate like she doesn’t want to sleep on a sofa the whole time, or not like she wanted to be able to play games all night.

This is one of the other issues really. He has previously said that it's not worth it when it's for less than a week. Petrol is expensive, and they do all the travelling so it basically takes them a full day. So each time (unless it's one of the odd occasions that I'm going, or my parents are visiting nearby), 2 of their days are taken up with travel. So in his mind he only gets 5/6 days and if it was less then what's the point in spending all the time and money.. Dd has previously said she'd be happier if it was less time.

The issues raised were wanting him and his mum not to argue in front of her (her dad shouts and has been known to storm off). It makes her anxious and upset and of course it bloody does. His response was he obviously doesn't want to argue but he can't control if they argue about something 🙄 this was responded to by saying no he can't necessarily control if a disagreement comes up, but he can control how he behaves if it does.

And dd wanting to get out of the house more when visiting. Man, as I write it all it sounds so terrible and I feel even more like I'm a shit mum for questioning myself over this shit. Her dad doesn't do much and dd gets bored and just wants to get out a bit. They used to get out more but that has lessened over the last few years. They mainly play video games and watch films. Visit his family on a day or 2. Very occasionally go and visit a friend of his, but he doesn't see his friend much at all so this is rare nowadays. I even offered to send dd with some money to go and do things because I know her dad is really skint and felt like maybe if he didn't need to worry about the money side of it it might make it more doable.

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