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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be raging about this school scheme?

260 replies

Promdiddlyontomtom · 03/12/2023 17:01

Hi, name changed as potentially very outing.

Have found out recently that my daughter's school has introduced a 'Points for Prom' incentive newest low.

The school get good results.

The demographic has some challenges and therefore they have a VERY strict regime and the kids are controlled with strict policies and sanctions (and a little praise- the balance is well out). The kids get detention if they don't get 100% in HW for example.

This is, IMO, the lowest they have gone.

Their newest bright idea- the young people have to earn 'behaviour points' to be in with a chance to get a ticket for their Y11 prom.

Apparently there's not enough spaces for all pupils (they only have spaces for 2/3 of the pupils... so find a bigger venue then!)

This is not an incentive and should not be used as a reward for 'good behaviour'.

Surely this is just a control tactic. A punishment for not toeing the line.

AIBU to think that all teens should get the opportunity to go to the end of school celebration? It draws the line after 12 years of compulsory education, a stressful period of formal exams, and friendships going in different directions (there's no sixth form). It marks the end of an era. Why should they be told they cannot go? Why shouldn't they be able to mark the end of years of education - for some this may have been a struggle all the way through- with their friends. There'll be no closure.

For the record, I've no concerns that my daughter will be excluded. I just think it's an awful idea.

What do you think?

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Dowhadiddydiddydum · 05/12/2023 17:26

00100001 · 04/12/2023 12:03

problem with having to earn points or whatever kind of bribery there is to allow you to attend - is that there will be a point where you just can't catch up and make amends - so there's absolutely no incentive to behave ...

This is such a good point. Even as a “behaviour management strategy” this is a trash idea. Some will know right from the beginning they won’t be able to manage it so won’t even try.

Those saying “well the school know who /how many children won’t be able to manage it” - so they’re setting them up to fail then? Their aim isn’t to improve behaviour, they’re banking on their own strategy not working. It’s terrible on many levels.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 04/12/2023 15:25

OK, so every child bucks up and behaves and now all 300 kids have enough 'credit' to go to to the leavers disco - now what? There's only space for 200...

The school probably has a pretty good idea of roughly how many kids are likely to be willing or capable of bucking up.

Since posting on this thread, I've heard from my ds that his school has said that they can only go to the Y11 prom if they clock 50 hours of revision on the online platform the school uses! Tbh I'm half amused and half pitying (of the school). I suspect they won't actually hold the kids to that when it comes to it. Some kids are already saying they'll boycott it though!

Needmorelego · 04/12/2023 12:06

@00100001 and if you have no interest in the prom at all there's also no incentive to behave.

00100001 · 04/12/2023 12:03

problem with having to earn points or whatever kind of bribery there is to allow you to attend - is that there will be a point where you just can't catch up and make amends - so there's absolutely no incentive to behave ...

HardHeartedHarbingerofHaggis · 04/12/2023 10:44

They should definitely have a venue big enough to cater for all although I suppose knowing their cohort better than you perhaps it is more cost effective to have a smaller venue based on the numbers they anticipate actually attending.

My DC school had I guess a similar system in that they had to have good attendance and regularly attend revision sessions and have their prom card signed by a teacher to be able to get a pass to prom. Poor behaviour would also mean being excluded from prom. Sounds fair enough to me, rewarding good behaviour and good attendance and commitment to studies, pretty good life lesson right there.

uninterestingusernamealert · 04/12/2023 10:38

@00100001 It's not to do with SEN provision no, but still the school isn't allowed to do things like insist they attend after school revision sessions if they're unable to do so as a result of their disability. They can't be disadvantaged like that even if it is a 'treat' thing that has zero to do with learning. They must be allowed access on the same footing as their non-disabled peers which means allowing reasonable adjustments to the 'rules' that everyone else must abide by.

Same as a child who falls under the EA shouldn't (eek can't, technically!) be docked 'prom points' for behaviour that's a result of their disability. A child can't cope in a lesson and becomes overstimulated and so walks out to self-regulate? Fine, they cannot lose points. The same child is caught vaping in the toilets? That's not fine, and they should lost the points then.

But I agree with you also - if you've got a child who has sibling caring responsibilities (for example) which means they can't attend them then that's not their fault, and any decent school would see that and make adjustments to the rules for them also.

00100001 · 04/12/2023 10:14

WandaWonder · 04/12/2023 08:10

Doesn't sound perfect but you play by the rules and behave you don't miss out should be a basic requirement

And it might encourage parents to do something about children who misbehave and not come up with excuses

OK, so every child bucks up and behaves and now all 300 kids have enough 'credit' to go to to the leavers disco - now what? There's only space for 200...

00100001 · 04/12/2023 10:12

uninterestingusernamealert · 04/12/2023 09:36

@00100001 No, I don't think it's particularly fair.

You said there needs to be a line in the sand. There is. A very, very clear legal one. Children with disabilities must be afforded adjustments by school, in law.

Other children who may have other difficulties for other circumstances do not, unless they fall under any other legislation that covers this.

I'd expect a school to take a common-sense and fair approach to things like this.

I do agree with you.

but the problem is, a prom is optional extra that's nice to have - nothing to do with SEN provision etc

SisterhoodNotCisterhood · 04/12/2023 10:07

That's terrible! My daughter is head of prom committee and made sure that the place she booked had the amount of space needed for every pupil that would be eligible for prom. The only people excluded would be pupils with very bad behaviour.

A recent school event did use credits/merits as a determination as to whether students could attend and these were basics like good behaviour and attendance (with a low threshold) and they had exceptions. My eldest didn't actually make the cut because she has a large number of online (in school) university classes that are done in between her other classes but she can't get attendance credits from them because obviously her uni tutors aren't part of the credit system so don't log her in the in school credit system. But as one of the organisers of the event she of course was allowed to go plus all she would have had to have done was tell one of those in charge her circumstances so it would have been fine.
Prom is for all seniors and a venue that's too small to accommodate them all is too small to hire.

Camerasforinthehouse · 04/12/2023 09:44

WandaWonder · 04/12/2023 08:10

Doesn't sound perfect but you play by the rules and behave you don't miss out should be a basic requirement

And it might encourage parents to do something about children who misbehave and not come up with excuses

But in this case 1/3 of children won’t get to go and will feel like they are second class, regardless of behaviour. May be they had to have time off because their PARENTS organised family life that way. Or they have had time off for ILLNESS or APPOIMTMENTS. May be they missed a homework because they are struggling academically. May be they miss school because they have anxiety about it.

Since when did it become ok to punish kids for being human?

Yes, very poor behaviour could reasonably result in being banned. But this, you have to compete to get the limited places, disadvantages the most vulnerable. Those with health issues and disorganised or neglectful parents. It teaches them nothing of any use to society.

Actually, research shows that this kind of public point system and shaming and blaming, doesn’t create intrinsic motivation but superficial compliance and cheating.

uninterestingusernamealert · 04/12/2023 09:36

@00100001 No, I don't think it's particularly fair.

You said there needs to be a line in the sand. There is. A very, very clear legal one. Children with disabilities must be afforded adjustments by school, in law.

Other children who may have other difficulties for other circumstances do not, unless they fall under any other legislation that covers this.

I'd expect a school to take a common-sense and fair approach to things like this.

PoliticallyIncorrectHitchling · 04/12/2023 08:56

They mustve taken their inspo from China. They have a points system there as well. Awful

DailyMailHater · 04/12/2023 08:15

Common for schools in my area prom attendance is based on
attendance hitting a certain level - (they will be lenient on this if you have a know condition)
and
negative behaviour points being below a certain level you can’t attend prom.

i don’t necessarily agree with the attendance criteria but kind of get the behaviour points one

lljkk · 04/12/2023 08:11

Did you choose this school OP or was it the very nearest/only school your DC was offered?

WandaWonder · 04/12/2023 08:10

Doesn't sound perfect but you play by the rules and behave you don't miss out should be a basic requirement

And it might encourage parents to do something about children who misbehave and not come up with excuses

00100001 · 04/12/2023 08:02

uninterestingusernamealert · 03/12/2023 21:52

Well, if they make exceptions for SEN students, then they must make exceptions for children who aren't able to attend for any reason at all. Like what if they have to pick up a sibling? Or are carers? Or have an Extra curricular commitment...

There has to be a line somewhere in the sand.

There is already a very clear line in the sand - children who fall under the remit of the The Equality Act. Those for whom adjustments must be made by law.

Ok, so... You think it's fair that 1 child who can't attend through no fault of their own gets to go, but the other child through no fault of their own who is having to get home to pickup a sibling and then go to home to care can't go?

That's bollocks. The rule of having to attend after school revision sessions is bullshit.

ExtendingLead · 03/12/2023 22:49

The school sounds awful. Last year my kids’ school had a ‘leavers ball’ in the dining room and a marquee. All kids attended and there were no behaviour issues. It was inclusive and a lovely way to say bye to friends.

And shock horror, some of the fabulous teachers attended voluntarily because they liked the kids…and got a free meal ;-)

Not all schools are feral jungles with violent pupils, hateful parents and resentful bitter teachers. Some are inclusive and welcoming and foster good attitudes in their pupils without the need for extreme sanctions and incentives.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 03/12/2023 22:36

I don’t believe a whole 1/3 of the school have behaviour so difficult they couldn’t attend a prom

Well it depends what level of behaviour you think would merit not being allowed to the prom, doesn't it? If you excluded everyone who, for example, had been vaping in the school toilets, that would probably be more than 1/3 of my ds' school's Y11 cohort, according to him! That's still pretty mild compared with lots of the behaviour problems though, sadly.

stomachameleon · 03/12/2023 22:29

@CasperGutman In my experience their mates are either with them or are fed up with them by prom.

CasperGutman · 03/12/2023 22:03

That's a crap idea. Excluding a sizable portion of the kids from prom doesn't just punish them (and for nothing in particular - just not being quite as good at winning points as the others!). It punishes their friends.

uninterestingusernamealert · 03/12/2023 21:52

Well, if they make exceptions for SEN students, then they must make exceptions for children who aren't able to attend for any reason at all. Like what if they have to pick up a sibling? Or are carers? Or have an Extra curricular commitment...

There has to be a line somewhere in the sand.

There is already a very clear line in the sand - children who fall under the remit of the The Equality Act. Those for whom adjustments must be made by law.

electriclight · 03/12/2023 21:37

"Well, if they make exceptions for SEN students, then they must make exceptions for children who aren't able to attend for any reason at all. Like what if they have to pick up a sibling? Or are carers? Or have an Extra curricular commitment..."

No I wouldn't equate a legal requirement for a reasonable adjustment, to address a disability, with any of those other things.

dayone · 03/12/2023 21:19

LuluBlakey1 · 03/12/2023 20:42

I also know of a parent who was 'fuming' that her son and his friend were told they could not attend the prom because they had been caught drug dealing just before Easter of Y11. She made a huge fuss and said she was organising her own prom, had a venue, was organising catering etc and already had 50 + Y11s who were attending her prom. She went to the local paper, on Facebook, complained to the LA, to Ofsted (who were uninterested) blah, blah!

None of the Y11 went to her prom- they wanted to be with the school, their friends and the staff who'd taught them and looked after them. Parents didn't want their children going to her prom. They wanted them looked after, properly supervised in a venue used to managing events like this. They trusted the school. Proms are usually lovely occasions and schools make a huge effort to make them fun and exciting and celebratory and a really happy end to that tough year. All the woman's shouting and mouthing off was just horrible, spiteful, hot air, as ever.

I think most sane parents will agree that drug dealing is an acceptable reason to get banned from prom. That isn't what the OP is upset about, is it?

00100001 · 03/12/2023 21:17

electriclight · 03/12/2023 20:35

They'll have enough space for everyone. They won't tell a third of the cohort that they can't go. They've just told the kids that there's a shortage of tickets so they step up.

I quite like it as an idea. It is within their own control to behave, attend revision classes etc to earn points. I don't think I understand why op and some pp are so angry. They know what they need to do if they want to go. Natural consequences if they don't do it.

I think adjustments would need to be made for SEN pupils though. Attending after school revision classes for example might be too difficult after a full day at school.

Well, if they make exceptions for SEN students, then they must make exceptions for children who aren't able to attend for any reason at all. Like what if they have to pick up a sibling? Or are carers? Or have an Extra curricular commitment...

There has to be a line somewhere in the sand.

Justonemorecoffeeplease · 03/12/2023 21:16

00100001 · 03/12/2023 21:14

Well, you'd presume that if an employee threw a chair at their supervisor and called them a fucking cunt and stormed out of the door... They wouldn't be an employee so wouldn't be going to the Christmas party...

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