AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

Hidden under the placard of assumptions you're holding up in front of me, maybe?
You have NO idea what I do with my time.

It's equally unreasonable to take males in a female only communal changing area though.

You were mocking any woman who is naked/partly naked in an ALL FEMALE changing area - women do this ALL the time, not to 'get their baps out', but just to do a normal thing like changing.
@Thedm added that she has a disability which makes it more effort/not possible to cover up to change, so while you weren't initially aware of or mocking her disability directly, you were mocking something she cannot change.

A female only space is just that, males are not allowed.

They don't what? Get naked in changing rooms. Well I must be seeing things the 5 days a week I go to the gym then - my bad 🙄

@LolaSmiles

Look the reason women’s spaces are the go to in these sorts of emergency situations is that

a) Mainly it is mothers taking care of the children or bringing them to swimming

b) Women are much less likely to be rapists, paedophiles, violent and so forth

Therefore women’s spaces are deemed to be safe for children.

OP’s son is 2 months older than this 8yo cut off point for boys. She didn’t bring a 24yo disabled man in there, I think some of the reactions on this thread are out of their tree bonkers

The situation in the OP wasn't an emergency, but I do agree that in emergencies those things apply.

My question was why the default response to any issues with facilities is to just use the women's:

The pertinent question at the root of it is why some people's default reaction to facilities not being as they want is to tell women and girls to fix it or budge up and accept a mixed sex space, rather than either parents choosing somewhere that has changing facilities that meet their needs or advocating for better management of facilities to meet their requirements. It feels awfully like telling women and girls to budge up, accept boundaries being eroded and be kind.

There are places I won't take an older boy because the changing isn't appropriate. I wouldn't send him to the men's, for the reasons you outline, but I'd also not expect his female peers to lose their single sex space. This means that we need to either choose places to swim with a family changing village or somewhere that has appropriate family changing in addition to single sex communal changing.

I don't think the fact women take children swimming more means that by the women's space becomes unisex by default because people don't want to choose a different venue/the venue doesn't see the need to provide appropriate changing facilities to preserve the privacy and dignity of everyone.

No-one is going to worry about a six year old. Your six year old is going to have his own opinion and won't be following you for years to come. He will develop his own feelings and be horribly embarrassed being taken into the womens for too much longer. You'll see. I'll give it a couple of years before he kicks up a fuss and feels the shame.

If you ignore me saying something I will turn to your son and ask him, aren't you too old to be in the womens? That will be the end of him willingly following you.

I've seen a woman banned from a pool for bringing in her twelve year old sons. Good for the pool.

@itsdark I would use a family room if available. Challenging me won’t make a difference, I wouldn’t acknowledge someone asking me to put my kid at risk, except maybe to blow them a kiss once we are done and on my way out. Busy change rooms at swimming are less of a risk, he goes into the men’s. But side of road toilets or beach change rooms not a chance. He already cracks it if I take him into the women’s. My 6 year old will be accompanying me for years to come. 💋

It's difficult. He is really too old but as you say he needs help.

Which child has the earlier lesson? If it is your son then could you get out of the pool earlier, get him dressed and then collect your younger one?

You could request a 'reasonable adjustment' from the venue where an accessible changing room is reserved for you for 20 mins? Or one of the group changing rooms? A notice on the door saying 'Currently in use by a family, this will be single sex in 20 mins'. Although I would say that if they will clear a room for you ask for the men's, children are usually accompanied by mum so this would inconvenience fewer people.

Get bath robes for you all to wear while waiting for the changing rooms.

Do you travel by car? Onesies and shower at home?

And if your child is obviously not a young boy and approaching puberty, I will be sure to challenge you on it. Your embarrassed son will feel so awkward he will refuse to go into a women's changing room after someone confronts you, surely? Go to the family rooms.

If the amount of passion that went into this thread was put into changing the law on having more spaces available for parents with kids it would be sorted very quickly. Until it is changed, I will continue to occasionally bring my boys into female spaces on occasions when it’s necessary. Because assaults happen. Toilets and change rooms have a lot of incidents. If others want to put their kids at risk that’s fine. But I’m not.

@Thedm

It is not a matter of “liking” accommodations around queues.

It is that this is an accommodation set up to specifically help disabled people, including autistics.

Just like extra time in exams, reasonable adjustments at work, or a free carer ticket at events.

I am not trying to force anything on anyone. But I haven’t the foggiest why a disabled person wouldn’t avail of all the support available to ensure equality.

@Thedm

No one is suggesting that women’s spaces should be for boys.

This is a once off event. There was no where else for the child to change safely for his disability.

He is 2months beyond 8 years of age and this boundary that everyone is ranting on about.

To come down on the mother like a tonne of bricks in this completely hostile manner devoid of compassion is unwarranted and extreme.

I would have been interested to hear how @JustKeepSwimmingAlong gets on with advocating for her son at the leisure centre.

I’d like to know what the leisure centre’s position is on this unacceptable situation where a disabled boy was not accommodated and a teenage girl did not have access to privacy as a result.

It would be great to hear all these updates from OP regarding the resolution of the situation and how the leisure centre will seek to make amends to all parties involved.

But we won’t hear any of that because a bunch of extreme feminists devoid of common sense relating to real life scenarios have decided to be a broken record over the thread. And another bunch of equally intense people decided to derail the thread with a TERFs and trans chat completely irrelevant.

I hope you are all pleased with yourselves.

This could have been a thread showing lessons in how to resolve these situations to ensure the rights of women and disabled people are protected…..

But all we’ve had is a bun fight going round in circles.

@TomeTome

I’ve just read this three times.

I’m so so sorry you and your son have had to ensure such lack of understanding and compassion from people.

It has shocked me reading this thread that people could be so venomous regarding a disabled child.

And that I will be facing more difficult situations trying to accommodate my child (potentially) in the near future with regard to toilets and changing areas…

I genuinely hadn’t clocked it.

?

Where is the outrage then @sollenwir ?

Where is the activism?

The placards?

The indignition?

Oh that’s right, it’s nowhere, because people - men and women - are too motivated by their own self interest to give a shit about supporting and including disabled people.

I’ve got no idea if that would work for this child, but I’d assume if it was that straight forward that’s what OP would have done. I don’t think you have to minimise the difficulties he and that face to suggest that her solution wasn’t good and needs a rethink. After all that’s what the poor woman said herself.

The majority of autistic people have learning difficulties or disabilities and many more have other comorbids. OP has indicated her son does. I don’t think it’s logical to assume because you know a HFA who can do something this child is at all likely to be able to do the same.

If the female change was open plan then you should have waited for the group change. 9 is too old for a boy to be in an open change female changing room tbh

Speak to the pool staff for guidance and ask for an appropriate facility to be made available

That my DD doesn't need. So by us not being there, it actually makes it easier for those who do need that particular consideration.

@Robinni
We get it, you like the queue skipping. It works for you and that’s great. But stop trying to force it onto us when we know our kids.

Female spaces are not there to be a haven for boys. They don’t have to go into the men’s communal room and risk assault, but they are not allowed into the women’s. But luckily there are family changing rooms, and if his autism affects his waiting time then the OP can have an adjustment made and skip the queue. So I’m not sure what it is you think the problem is? The staff will assist her in getting him into a family change after he has showered. He doesn’t need to invade a female only space. The mum made a mistake, she is going to sort it. So why do you keep saying the female space should be available to him? He doesn’t need it, it isn’t for him and women and girls using it don’t want him there.

@PuttingDownRoots

The rule is - you go to queue B rather than queue A because that is what you are entitled to do by law and it is set up to help you.

Just like accommodations at school, work etc. it’s no different.

@PuttingDownRoots

Which is why at every theme park, airport, event etc that we go to there is a separate - and often non existent - queue for disabled people.

@Robinni

What makes you an authority on how autism affects our children? In my son’s case, you are way off the mark. He doesn’t give a shit about standing in a queue. It doesn’t affect his life in any way. He has quite a few hobbies (comic cons, conventions) which require standing around waiting for presentations to start, even using a queue skip so many kids have them that you’re still queueing to meet people, it’s just part of life and luckily for him, has no ill effect.

He has his own triggers, we‘ve had to find ways to manage around those. But standing in a queue isn’t one. Assuming that all kids with autism cannot wait their turn is just really wrong, especially when you’re actually being told by their parents that it is fine.

This isn’t about whether the kid can stand in a queue or not. If he can but can’t be wet then she needs to dry him, if he can’t stand at all then OP does need to skip the queue and staff will arrange it. The question here was about using a female only space. She cannot do that.

@PosterBoy

Yes it is unthinkable because if you start sending children alone into mens changing rooms you put them at risk of assault, if you send the mother in with the child she too is at risk of assault.

If mother and son are in a female space they will not be assaulted.

@Robinni jumping a queue, even if allowed, would upset my DD more than waiting. Rules are there for a reason, and she "can't" break them.

I know plenty of other people with autism that are similar.