AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

I agree, now she knows.

He’s two months beyond age 8!!

I wouldn’t have known either, DS is my only male child; I had presumed primary school age was fine… but evidently it’s not beyond year 3.

I don't think many people would have a problem with a male child in a women's toilet. Like you said, there are cubicles so privacy is assured. We don't use urinals in the women's. A changing room is a different prospect.

Wouldn't bother me. Anyone who has problems with accompanied male children seeing their bits can invest in something like a swimming wrap - towel tube with elastic on the top and slits for hands/arms. I used to swim a lot and never showed a thing using these - even change on a beach in them.

This- if anyone really does want to help- please email my local massive shopping centre about their toilets!

There is a room for breast feeding/has a toddler sized cubicle in there and changing tables- my chair doesn’t fit.

There is a womens bathroom- long corridor of cubicles with the ‘accessible’ toilet at the far end.

There is a man’s bathroom with a line of urinals, 2 cubicles and the ‘accessible’ cubicle at the end.

These are the only toilets provided.

So, when I take my (disabled) son there what do we do? Do I take him to walk as quickly as possible to the ‘accessible’ cubicle in the women's room? This will make some women uncomfortable because DS is 9.

or do I do the same in the men’s room? This would make me (a woman) uncomfortable and possibly unsafe, especially since I am disabled and therefore more vulnerable. It also makes DS uncomfortable (because he doesn’t like to see unknown adults with their bits out like they are at urinals). This basically isn’t an option because DS would take one look and leave- I can’t drag him because of the aforementioned wheelchair.

So, basically there isn’t an answer. Either we invade a female space (albeit one with cubicles), or we are excluded from the centre- where the shoe shops/santas grotto/home Ed meet ups/charity events etc are run.

Feel free to pm me for details to contact them and tell them they are wankers.

To be honest @LolaSmiles while I understand your concern the sort of child that needs help to this level is really unlikely to develop into the sort of man you describe.

I think sometimes it’s worth remembering who and what situation you are talking about

What part of speaking generally means I was talking about the OP's child?

It is an observation about male pattern behaviour (which at one end has extreme offenders and at the other end has otherwise nice enough guys who don't get boundaries well enough or have a lot of grey ideas about privacy and don't get the big deal about single sex spaces) and it doesn't just appear at 18.

Those of us with sons have a responsibility to teach them about privacy, dignity, respect, consent and why single sex spaces are important in my opinion.

I think it's much, much more difficult to do that if in one breath a parent says "you get changed separately from PE in juniors because boys and girls have the right to change with their own sex" but then 24 hours later they take their son swimming and instead of going somewhere with appropriate family changing and then bring their 10/11/12 year old boy into female changing, showing no respect for a 10/11/12 year old girls privacy and single sex space, and worse making it clear that if a girl feels uncomfortable with it she should shut up about it because the men's changing has problems.
What does a 10/11/12 year old boy learn here? That girls deserve privacy and single sex changing when it's easy, but if it's a bit of an inconvenience then it doesn't matter? That it's a girl's job to manage her feelings and get over it if she feels uncomfortable? That if male behaviour is a problem then other groups should budge up?

Because you used the collective “we” in your post… so I addressed the collective “we” that you had made yourself a part of.

As would unexpectedly finding that the space she is normally able to change in is unavailable @DoktorPeppa and having to wait for X time for that space to be available, which would set off her timings and routine for the rest of the day.

Can I ask the reasons why you don't take him into the make changing rooms.

I get what you are saying @DoktorPeppa there is a spectrum and autistic people vary along this; for instance some are violent, some aren’t.

With regard to queues it is in the top five of accommodations for autistics so you can surmise from that that it is an issue for a vast majority.

Regards concept of time, you can expect this to be prevalent, particularly where there is comorbid ADHD, which there is with OP’s son.

Sorry you had that experience. Some people have no clue. I just piled my lot into one room. Safest way to get everyone changed.

I live and breathe caring for autistic people all day everyday, so you can't tell me what it's like. Part of my job is to advocate and I do it when I need to.

What I have never done is taken an age inappropriate autistic male into a women's changing room. I make other arrangements. OP was caught in a situation and made a snap decision, which she later thought better of. I can give her that. It's not appropriate to let it continue though. Now she knows, she can make other arrangements.

We do use family rooms, or the accessible rooms wherever possible. Otherwise we end up with stupid situations having to take turns to change so that someone can be outside the changing room with DS because he can’t be left alone.

It is a bugger of a situation though… I’ve been challenged by other people before who don’t believe I should have any non disabled people in the accessible space with me. Disabled women really can’t win no matter what we do.

@itsdark

Exactly, everyone has at least one person in their social circle or family with disability, but they don’t do anything about it because it doesn’t impact them unless they are the carer. And carers are usually too exhausted to fight.

Everywhere I take my DS we have to ring ahead and make arrangements, to make sure facilities/accommodations are in place.

Where a place doesn’t have provision I write directing them to advice regarding what they are legally obligated to provide and information on what is provided in similar organisations.

I don’t have to, but I do it because everywhere should be accessible, and I can’t stand DS being excluded or treated badly.

Probably why I have empathy for OP.

He’s a 9 year old. A child. YANBU OP.

but mumsnet is bonkers on such subjects.

I have more than one autistic child. They can queue for a time but we choose to stay in the water and wait for a free room. Two of them are male.

Using the reasoning of some here, my 19 year old autistic male 'child' deserves to be able to access the female changing rooms with me because it's easier for me and they have a disability. I'll just make sure I bring the report with the diagnosis and I'm good to go.

I have never taken an age inappropriate male into a woman's changing area. Disability is not an excuse. Accommodations can be made by communicating with the centre. People are very accommodating when given the chance.

OP took the male into a communal female only area.

That link literally also says

other researchers have found that time perception can be an area of strength for certain people on the spectrum. Some people affected by autism appear to excel at time reproduction

So again, sweeping statements about autistic people like they can't queue or understand time are not useful.

This still doesn't justify taking a male into a communal female only space.

I sympathise because I do understand the issues but 12 is just getting too old no matter what. The centre needs to provide a private changing area. I can't imagine any centre would have a problem with that if you asked them when you arrived.

@DoktorPeppa

I don’t doubt she can queue, so can I.

What I didn’t realise until I had an autistic child myself, and was following his accommodations, was that doing this had been putting more pressure on me, absorbing more energy and my capacity to cope with other things. So now if there is an opportunity to avoid a queue I do.

Regarding issues autistic people have gauging and tracking time, please see the link below or google it yourself.

https://www.autismspeaks.org/expert-opinion/autism-and-difficulty-gauging-time-strategies-common-challenge#:~:text=Some%20of%20these%20investigators%20have,to%20excel%20at%20time%20reproduction.

Females are more important than males in female only spaces, a male child definitely is less important in this scenario.

She's not a boy. She's a girl, who should be entitled to using a female only space without boys in it.

You are not helping either.
Forcing women to guve up their rights isn't the way forward to more understanding or provision of services for those with extra needs.
She should never have done this, there never was any valid reason to take a male into a female space.

So 9-10 year old you would have been quite happy to get changed in front of a boy the same age. Yeah right. I don't know any kids who would be happy with that.

Are you saying girl children are less important than boy children?

It would be the same if she was a boy and had nowhere to go