AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

and C

Some men being uncomfortable or inconvenienced for a short period of time.

I guess that's unthinkable

This is very true. It’s no more acceptable for disabled spaces to become the default for everyone than it is for female.

If no facilities were provided for her to use with her son then that’s another discussion about lack of resources for disabled people with an opposite sex carer. But that’s not the case here. There are facilities. At certain times there is a queue. So you wait. You don’t use the female space
I agree with this.

A PP up thread made a good point about the problem of lumping baby changing in with accessible facilities when baby changing could easily be put in the men's and women's areas, freeing up accessible spaces for those who need it.
Something similar could be done with changing if there is a need for more family changing or more accessible changing.

The pertinent question at the root of it is why some people's default reaction to facilities not being as they want is to tell women and girls to fix it or budge up and accept a mixed sex space, rather than either parents choosing somewhere that has changing facilities that meet their needs or advocating for better management of facilities to meet their requirements. It feels awfully like telling women and girls to budge up, accept boundaries being eroded and be kind.

@Robinni

The third option is that she uses the male groups change, and some men can be embarrassed and inconvenienced for a few minutes or asked to wait outside/change in the toilets if they are uncomfortable with a woman helping her son in their space.

I would not want to get changed in front of a nine year old boy. I think you should have waited for family changing room.

You do swimming lessons somewhere else, where there is family changing.

@Robinni

But the OP hasn’t said anything about her son being unable to wait due to an impending meltdown if he had to. She said she just didn’t want to stand around dripping wet waiting for a family change room to be free.

In the case, it was no about necessity. It was not about avoiding a meltdown. It was entitlement. She felt entitled to invade a female only space because she didn’t want to stand around waiting for her turn in the private change.

If her son was at risk of a meltdown, then you go to staff and tell them you need access to the accessible change as you have a child with a disability and they cannot wait. You do not walk into the female only space.

If there are cubicles I really don't care who is using them, to be honest. It wouldn't bother me if they were unisex. Same with loos, changing rooms in shops etc. If I'm in a private cubicle I'm not bothered who's in the cubicle next door.

However, if it's a communal changing area then no, I don't think it's at all appropriate to bring in a nine-year-old boy, regardless of additional needs.

@Robinni 'young' is age, 'small' is size. It's not about development.

Options with a disabled child where no provision is made

A) Some women being uncomfortable or inconvenienced for a short period of time.

B) Child being put at risk of injury/death

I know which I would choose.

@Robinni

The centre has provided facilities, she just has to queue. She didn’t want to do she chose to invade the female only space.

There isn’t any way to speed it up. Group change is faster and there is never a queue as you just go in and use it alongside everyone else, which is why it must remain single sex.

Individual cubicles and family change rooms will have queues because they can only be used by one person/family group at a time. When you need those facilities, you just have to wait. The OP needed those facilities but didn’t want to wait. That’s the only reason she took her son into a female space; she didn’t want to wait and decided that the women’s only space didn’t apply to her son.

If no facilities were provided for her to use with her son then that’s another discussion about lack of resources for disabled people with an opposite sex carer. But that’s not the case here. There are facilities. At certain times there is a queue. So you wait. You don’t use the female space.

You shouldn't have taken him into the female changing room but your son should have had priority for the accessible changing cubicles and should not be expected to queue behind families who do not have a person with disabilities who requires them. Everyone else has other options.

And that is part of the problem... even when there are facilities they get taken up by others.

I agree. Children without disabilities need to be using the single sex facilities, little ones with the parent, 8 and up in the correct sex facilities. Stop taking up facilities that other families need.

So you are all mostly saying if there isn’t mixed sex changing rooms you either don’t do swimming lessons? Or risk your child being assaulted? I don’t think so.

No- which is why as I’ve said 3 times- my son and I go home in our swimming stuff if there isn’t a disabled facility for us to use. I agree entirely that female spaces are for biological females.

My point is that it’s really really depressing that so many women think that they can make that point then go one their way happy with their feminism ideals- completely ignoring disabled women and mothers of disabled sons.

‘The answer’ is a shift in attitudes of the whole of society away from thinking that disabled women/children are an afterthought. That we don’t want to teach our sons appropriate boundaries. That just not going to places is a reasonable alternative to us, and that basically it’s not their problem because right now it doesn’t directly affect them.

@Pipistrellus

They are in terms of development.

My DC is tall so already looks 9-10.

He is still 18m away from being kicked out by which point he will probably look 11.

Even though he will have the developmental capacity of a 6yo by that point.

To me it's about women and girls feeling comfortable in their own spaces. An older boy that appears to be a six year old is only likely to make a girl feel more uncomfortable than an actual six year old if she knows him.

Where is @SerafinasGoose presuming that it will be disabled people who make way?

Perhaps we need to stop referring to third spaces, in recognition of the fact that third spaces are already provided for disabled people, and start referring to fourth spaces for this purpose instead.

@Kendodd

As I’ve said before - autistics have queue passes in most places/special assistance to avoid queuing at airports.

It is not that they “don’t want to queue”, it is that if they did queue they may end up with him screaming, yelling, lying on the floor thrashing around, self harming, lashing out and hitting others to name but a few things that can happen with meltdowns. Then she’ll have several days at home after this where he won’t eat or sleep properly and will have increased distress and greater chance of another meltdown.

Adequate provision should be available without having to queue.

The main reason there are queues is because they have lumped baby changers into a disabled space and thus opened it to families.

To resolve this they can put the baby changers in the mens and womens facilities.

Put that point to the leisure centre OP.

YABU I'm afraid.

9 is too old for a boy to be in the female changing rooms.

The point here is if the accessible changing rooms were reserved for those with disabilities only and everyone respects that, then the whole situation wouldn't have arisen.

When mine used to go swimming, there was one wheelchair accessible room, several large cubicles and many individual cubicles which could easily fit a parent and child. Only children were swimming at this time.

There was a mother in a wheelchair. Everyone could see that... yet she frequently had to wait for a family to move out of the wheelchair accessible room to be able to help her child change. (This was the only private shower as well which I presume why people kept using it)

And that is part of the problem... even when there are facilities they get taken up by others.

It wouldn't bother me, but I know it would bother other women and girls so for that reason older children should either be changed in the changing area of their sex, family changing, or if there as disabilities/SEN any accessible changing space.

Making women's changing mixed sex isn't the solution.

Parents who take older children of the opposite sex swimming need to ensure that there's appropriate changing facilities at the venue they choose so that the default isn't to take them into the opposite sex changing.

That’s a weird attitude- reality doesn’t matter, it only matters what it looks like.

@TomeTome

What are you talking about? Of course he ain’t any less than anyone else. That’s why there are family changing rooms provided. At busy times, you have to wait. He just has to wait. He can’t use the group female change just because his changing rooms are a bit busy.

We all have things provided for us. When they are busy, we have to wait. That doesn’t make him any less than us. By saying he should be allowed to use the female only room, you are actually saying that as a male, he is worth more than us and we should just move over. No. No way. The OP and her kid can just wait like everyone else.

Try not to stop swimming! If all us disabled folk just give up and stay at home then the dickheads that cause this issue win!

My son can’t wait either- I take a big robe (like a dry robe but cheaper!), put that on him and take him straight home (via a complaint to staff that there isn’t anywhere for us to change!).

I’ll be damned if I’ll let this stop my son from (or me!) from getting to have a life.