AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

What don’t you understand here. A 8/9/10/11/12 year old girl should not have to be naked in front of a peer, in front of an 8/9/10/11/12 year old boy. And it keeps going right up the ages. Woman and girls should not have to be naked in front of a boy. Not in a female only space. Everything else is a red herring. The disability actually doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the very simple fact and woman and girls should not have to be naked in front of a boy or man in a female only space.

There are other spaces for this boy and his mum. There are other spaces for you and your son. You should not be in a female group change with a boy of this age. Period.

It’s not about thinking young boys are a threat, it’s about not feeling comfortable being naked around pubescent boys, I certainly wouldn’t want to be naked around 9/10 year old boys, I don’t think that’s unreasonable, I don’t think most men or teenage boys would want to be naked around girls that age either. OP should have waited for a family cubicle.

A 9/10/12/12/13/14 year old girl isn’t going to care if this male child has autism or not.

Just that there is a boy in there who will see her changing when he shouldn’t be in there and she shouldn’t have to be uncomfortable or put off sports or swimming or whatever to be kind or be nice to a boy.

The child and his mother should use the cubicles designated for their use.

If there are not enough take that up with the pool/sports centre. Get adjustments made, that may mean leaving slightly before or after lesson finish when they won’t be as busy but none of those adjustments should be telling young girls and women stfu and be kind deal with it.

The accessible rooms should be just that.

Secondly, teaching boys that it’s acceptable to invade women’s spaces is a huge problem. One day they will be bigger and stronger, and without boundaries around women. As for telling teenage girls that they have no right to boundaries when they are undressing, I’m sickened.*

i think this is such a key point, and given how vulnerable disability can make many makes it is vital these boundaries are clear and enforced from pre puberty to protect them as much as to protect women. When they get older it is so easy for their behaviour to be misconstrued if they haven’t had those boundaries reinforced (often over and over and over again!)

ds is 14 now. I know he poses no more risk to anyone now that he did when he was younger. He is naïve to the point I worry about the risk it may put him in. But others don’t know that. He knows he doesn’t go into any female only spaces because I reinforced that boundaries from about the age of 6. We use the disabled facilties or we don’t go (I check online before going somewhere new, I’m not giving money to places that don’t cater for us!). This protects him and it means women aren’t made to feel uncomfy.

I second this! As an Autistic woman with an Autistic daughter, this constant mention of the "autistics" is giving me the rage.

It's being done on purpose, I'm fairly sure of that as it's been shoe horned in to their almost every post.

Secondly, teaching boys that it’s acceptable to invade women’s spaces is a huge problem. One day they will be bigger and stronger, and without boundaries around women. As for telling teenage girls that they have no right to boundaries when they are undressing, I’m sickened.

Exactly! And teaching OP’s own daughter to ignore discomfort she may have around her own bodily boundaries because a male has to be prioritised.

Completely agree. As a disabled woman (who finds it very hard to stand for more than a few minutes without pain and rapid loss of mobility), I would without thinking let a parent of any child showing signs of struggling with waiting go ahead of me in any queuing situation.
But women’s spaces for males? No.

There’s a couple of points getting ignored by certain posters here. Firstly, disabled women are also protected by female only spaces, because we’re women too, and some of us have added vulnerability to deal with.

Secondly, teaching boys that it’s acceptable to invade women’s spaces is a huge problem. One day they will be bigger and stronger, and without boundaries around women. As for telling teenage girls that they have no right to boundaries when they are undressing, I’m sickened.

A quick question? What about women and girls who cannot share spaces with boys due to religion or past abuse? Should they just stay home or not swim so that disabled boys can use the space allocated to them? I’m a wheelchair user with 2 autistic daughters, one of which would have a meltdown if forced to get changed with a boy of 9/10. Let me guess, she should use a toilet cubicle, wait for him to be finished or put up with the anxiety rather than inconvenience the boy?

I'm not a teenage girl and I don't want to be forced to change in front of males who are hitting puberty, thanks.

The needs of your son are important, but you cannot think its reasonable to prioritise them over the needs and rights of all females to have a protected changing space.

Oh never mind girls and women with neurodivergence! Boys always come first!

@Robinni
Have you considered the impact on autistic girls and women in what was meant to be a single sex space?

Good point!

And what proportion are disabled women who actually don't want their disabilities used as a gotcha to argue for giving up their single sex facilities?

@Robinni

My son is autistic. I don’t need educated. The OP does because her “solution” isn’t a solution. And please stop calling my son, and others, “autistics”.

9 is too old for female changing room.

But actually, I do share the issue. I went through it with my own son with autism. I didn’t make the choice she made, nor have any of the mum’s in my “group” of autism mum friends. We don’t take our grown boys into women’s open plan changing rooms. It is not acceptable.

There are other options, but you’re the one who refuses to accept any alternative because we should all just move over for a boy. No. Standing in a queue with a boy who doesn’t like being wet… hmm.. what’s the solution… just bloody dry him in the queue! But no, she invaded a woman’s space and when a teenage girl complained, the OP just carried on.

Nobody has said OP should stay home or try to cure her disabled child. I think some posters can’t read very well to just be making up nonsense about legitimate concerns that the majority on this thread have raised. OP could’ve asked staff at the pool if there was a private space given her need was greater than any family queuing who didn’t have kids with disabilities. I’d have no issue letting OP skip the queue if it were me, perhaps in future they can ensure a room is kept available for her after her son’s lesson, but using a facility only for girls and women - no.

@Thedm

This is nauseating to read.

I have posted twice already about the issues queuing for autistics. And I will copy and paste my previous post for you below. Please read it this time, and google the issues autistics have with queues and how this disability affects them, what the dangers are and so forth. Educate yourself.

“As I’ve said before - autistics have queue passes in most places/special assistance to avoid queuing at airports.

It is not that they “don’t want to queue”, it is that if they did queue they may end up with him screaming, yelling, lying on the floor thrashing around, self harming, lashing out and hitting others to name but a few things that can happen with meltdowns. Then she’ll have several days at home after this where he won’t eat or sleep properly and will have increased distress and greater chance of another meltdown.

Adequate provision should be available without having to queue.

The main reason there are queues is because they have lumped baby changers into a disabled space and thus opened it to families.

To resolve this they can put the baby changers in the mens and womens facilities.

Put that point to the leisure centre OP.”

I think what this thread is doing is just making female carers feel unwelcome and misunderstood. OP did the best she could in a situation very few will ever face but is now going to be her everyday. She’s asked for ideas to handle it next time and assured posters on repeat that this isn’t a solution she wants to repeat. The response has been fairly unpleasant, myopic and sadly predictable. Those that will never share these issues are absolutely sure they would do better. Their solutions range from, stay home to miraculous curing of disability so waiting outside is achievable or waiting in the queue no longer a problem.

It’s a really hard stage @JustKeepSwimmingAlong I hope you meet with more compassion in real life.

It isn’t fine. Who are you to give away the rights of women and girls to a single sex space?

It's fine, Mumsnet is a strange place.

24% of the population are disabled

What proportion of those require mixed sex facilities?

An individual cubicle, yes? Not an open plan room. Completely different.

Under no circumstances at all should this boy have been taken in the women’s open plan changing room. And no alternative scenario you offer is going to make it Ok for the OP to have done this. It is never ok to bring a male person into the women’s changing room.

Except it’s only ever women’s rights that are deemed unimportant enough to compromise. Women do not have ‘plenty of provision’ lmao loads of you are literally arguing it’s fine for the one single sex space for women at this pool to be used by boys!