Holiday , who is right/wrong

Do not be bullied and stick to your plans.

Quietly look for a replacement child to fill the space that would work.

Going forward slow down with all these offers.

The grandparents who bend themselves out of shape most for their children and grandchildren, IMO are the least appreciated.

Step back.
Enjoy childfree holidays going forward.

Do not engage with your daughter.
Accept she has changed her mind about her child going and shut down any further conversation, its over.

Do not discuss the holiday again with her, as it no longer involves her in any way.

Firm up your boundaries or you are at risk of drowning in the entitled expectations of family and their ideas, of what you should be doing for them.

This is a common theme when some women retire.
Their adult children treat it as "oh goody, free childcare, extra set of hands to help me out constantly with pick ups, taking the children out" etc.

Many women do not want to spend their hard won retirement of 40 years of hard work and juggling, dealing with small children, even if they are their cute grandchildren.

Several women I know that were getting the "oh great you will be free to help" vibe, booked several holidays, gym classes and mentioned an OU course to get the message across firmly that their retirement plans did not include being at the beck and call of their children for daily childcare.

A little help for sure, particularly in emergencies, the odd evening babysitting etc., but boundaries are very important IMO
Firm boundaries prevent misunderstanding.

The parent is the one who's out of order. What an entitled pain in the arse.

@glassyhag so I take it the 3rd wasn’t planned but she insisted on keeping it, has a 4 week old and suffers from emotional regulation anyway and was initially fine with it.

she sounds overwhelmed and on the pathway for ppd or pps and probably needs medical attention if this has come out of the blue. Could you help support her with that.

it is likely as well given what you aren’t saying any decision on the third pregnancy would cause issues

If your daughter says no to taking any of the children, you could take the stepchild instead.

Just to say taking a four year old on a cruise sounds like an absolute nightmare!! Bad idea all round

You can invite whoever you want but i would be wary about assuming 4 year old is "the perfect age for kids club" - its very young to enjoy being left with strange adults and kids. The 6 yo will be fine but most of the 4 year olds i know would hate it & be miserable.

If how you plan to survive a cruise with a 4 yo is extensive kids club use, I'd be rethinking.

@glassyhag - have you thought that the 4 year old may not be happy being away from his Mum/home for so long at that age? My DS certainly wouldn’t have been.

I don't think I have a clear-cut view on this one.

Your daughter seems to have been fine about only including one child initially and only seems bothered once she knows the other child is going. This seems really unreasonable to me and makes me think maybe she isn't a particularly reasonable person in general, which must be quite frustrating.

But that aside, I agree with a pp that this was never going to end well. There is such a small age gap that I think it's odd and unfair to leave one out and also odd to have made this decision for the year after next when you've no idea what the dynamics or personalities of the children will be at that point. I just feel like you've made life deliberately hard for yourself when there are lots of other ways you could have planned a family holiday, and it's unfortunate this has therefore overshadowed what was meant to be a really nice thing you are doing.

@glassyhag what is your relationship like with your daughter and what do you want it to be, the language of tool to beat me with and not be bullied is very emotive and sets up an idea of a particular dynamic.

but not my choice gives a different perspective as well.

And how often do you have your nephew and what is the relationship like between your daughter and your sister.

you clearly want to be a decent grandparent as spend time with them, in order to do so though you need a decent loving relationship with your daughter. Rightly or wrongly your daughter may well be feeling jealously that your are taking her nephew, that she has ended up with 3 children with a small age gap (that may not have been a choice) and is struggling and sees you prioritising your sister and nephew. That your sister gets to have her career because you step in.

jealousy is a very negative emotion, that doesn’t mean people don’t have it. It probably may seem petty to others but that doesn’t mean it isn’t what is going on. You say your daughter and sister are T best friends so clearly you are aware.

you need to stop I think and take a pause and work out what you want. At the moment it seems as if you have a concept of family, lots of siblings, your children have lots of siblings and there is your nephew an only child whose cousins are much older than him and you are trying to force a relationship between him and your daughters oldest child.

it is not just your choice to cultivate those experiences for him. And you need to recognise that at the moment doing so is not on,y not working but may come at a terrible cost.

as for your title holiday whose right or wrong - no one. Complex family dynamics are at play here

I don't understand why people look at a situation and believe there are no valid views other than their own.

There are plenty of people here who don't agree with you - so maybe your definitive statement of the rights and wrongs of the situation is just your opinion. I don't believe all those holding different views to you aren't "decent grandparents"

You said in a previous post “she feels she’s doing us a favour and we feel it’s the other way round.”

Some parents don’t see a week away from their child as a favour! Sure, if you’re taking their kids whilst they do something fun/adult then definitely a favour, but not just taking one for a week.

I think you need to discuss with your daughter whether she actually wants all this before you announce you’re taking all three away every year. I wouldn’t want my kids to be going on holiday without me every year so this may well not be the favour you seem to think.

Your later comment about not allowing yourself to be bullied is odd, I can’t see where any bullying has occurred?

This is all seems very odd to me and it’s coming across like you’re trying to paint yourself as the injured party who’s merely trying to do your bullying daughter a favour, when there’s way more to it than that. You need to step back and dial down the drama.

I would not have allowed my children to go on a cruise without me at such a young age. Any holiday really but particularly a cruise. Also l think it's ridiculous planning this for 2025 as who knows what the dc will be like in two years time. The 4 year old may be a child who never wants to be away from their own parents..who knows. You may be incapacitated with your knee and unable to run after them.
For me..and l am now a grandparent you are causing unnecessary angst by making all these plans years in advance . Sounds harsh but just go on your own holidays and take your gc somewhere for a day.

We waited to go on a cruise until our kids were near teenagers, God forbid anything happens.

GPs sound lovely. I wouldn't want to look after a 3 and 4 year old for a week either - it'd be exhausting. Clearly the 6yo is easier to look after and mum wants the more time consuming 3yo out of her way for a week...

My in-laws took all their 11 grandchildren to Disney in America. Each grandchild was taken when they were of an age to enjoy and remember it so 7/8. It was fully understood that siblings would be going at different times but each would get their turn. We all appreciated how generous they were eing. Your daughter is being ridiculous to push you taking both siblings. The youngest won't be able to really enjoy a lot of what's on offer as he's too young and won't be in the same clubs as his sibling.

If anything I would postpone taking your gc on this kind of expensive holiday until they are at least 6 so they really get to enjoy everything. At 4 there will be loads they can't do and they won't really remember much about it later in life. Hopefully in a couple of years your daughter will have learnt to be more grateful.

@glassyhag i have a little boy who will also be 4 in Jan 2025… you are very welcome to take him away with your 6 year old nephew!! I’ll even buy the ticket!!! 🤣

Op, you are generous in your offer.

It is reasonable and well planned out.
Your daughter has a choice to accept the offer or to decline.
The fact that two of her children have not been invited is not a problem to me. A three year old can easily be told that they will be old enough to go once they are four.
Your daughter's family should be encouraging their oldest to have a lovely adventure instead of teaching the kids to be jealous.

If you think three will be too much and the clubs are 4+ I wouldn't take the 3 years old. Stand your ground and either 4 years old comes or doesn't

A cruise is a ridiculous holiday for 2 young children, I do not think they are safe environment at all. I would not be taking any child on board one

I agree with you

You sound like a lovely grandmother and your offer is not only generous, but makes complete sense.

It’s your daughter who is being unreasonable and entitled - suspect she’s jealous that you’re paying for a nephew whose parent she doesn’t like instead of another grandchild.

Maybe pay for your own holiday.

Who are all these adults that expect free holidays from their parents?!

Older children shouldn’t be held back to be playmates. They’re not babysitters.