Fil’s ‘manners’

Not really. If a woman's boundaries aren't respected for the basic stuff such as not wanting a kiss on the cheek, why would their boundaries suddenly be respected when it gets more serious?

Women are expected to put up and shut up and well, we already know the consequences of that in society and it isn't great. It's all part of the problem.

Bit of a leap from showing manners towards a lady and putting up with abuse.

I just think no wonder there's so much child abuse and domestic abuse when women police other women's boundaries and apparently don't think we are allowed any.

I can only imagine what children take from the attitude that you should just shut up and put up with whatever a man wants to do to you.

Hear hear, @SecondUsername4me.

Women should not be telling other women they need to put up with behaviour that makes them uncomfortable from men.

How sad that women who are on the receiving end of actions they do not want are still being told to shut up lest it hurt the man's feelings.

How dad that traditional manners are now seen negatively

The OP isn't being in the least unreasonable.

The FIL is exhibiting remarkably bad manners in forcing his antiquated, gendered ideas about 'good manners' on someone who visibly doesn't want to be subjected to it.

If good manners involve making the other person feel at ease (cf the apocryphal story always approvingly mentioned on here of Some Royal (who has been everyone from Qeeen Victoria to Prince Philip) drinking out of their finger bowl because some flustered guest had done so in error), then he should note from her behaviour (avoiding sitting near him at meals, rushing into her coat and ahead to the car) that his 'manners' are making her uncomfortable, and stop. It's not rocket science.

Though you'd have to be fairly dense not to notice that when a woman holds a door open for her husband because he's carrying their baby, you're really not making anyone's life easier by then refusing to walk through it, because you're a man and she's a woman, and it's wrong, even though said woman is just trying to get through a fucking door with her husband and a child, not needing some display of chivalry.

I'm going to assume the FIL is well-meaning, but not very sensitive and that the OP, if she values their relationship, is going to have to tell him to stop, gently but firmly.

In that case, FIL is unmannerly too since he refused to step through the door when OP opened it because he felt like he should’ve opened it.

Of course you’re being unreasonable.

And unmannerly. Part of care for others (which is what manners are) is accepting kindness with grace. You don’t sound very graceful.

My husband has lovely manners so he would never refuse to go through a door held by a woman.

He doesn't kiss women in greeting, pull out their chair or put their coats on for them either.

Due to sexism. It's time we move on from treating women differently.

Or at least be mindful that it's 2023 and not all women like it.

Yeah but why?

Why is it a "thing" that specifically men treat specifically women in a certain way?

But it's always been a British cultural thing that men from "good" families are raised to do these things. I mean, if you don't like it personally then shout up at the time.

But that's how OP feels which isn't wrong just because you might not feel the same way.

I feel the same as OP and would hate for a man to do any of those things just because I'm a woman.

Helping you with your coat isn't dressing you like a little girl, it's showing you respect - as is opening doors and pulling out chairs. My husband, father and father in law all do these things, as well as stand when a lady leaves or enters the home. Its sad that there are so few people left with proper manners that it's seen as odd, infantising or patronising.

Wow men with manners is a rare find these days, whats there to be upset about hopefully your son will take a leaf out of granddads book.

Last time i had anything to do with stranger males i was on public transport,8months pregnant with a massive bump as has extra amniotic fluid due to diabetes- i was worried for my bump as men literally pushes past me to get onto a train and no one gave me any space i had to keep my hands on front of my bump to keep people away.

not sure still why are you upset?

Oh god, I was expecting him to be in his 80s!

I was going to say that I would just let it be as it is harmlesss, but for some reason him being closer to my age (42) than I expected is making me feel a little differently about it. Tough one.

I wonder how many women want to object but are made to feel like they can't because it is 'traditional'? OP is probably saying what a lot of women are feeling but don't actually say because they want to 'be nice' and feel as they have to put a man's feelings above their comfort.

If a man is such a gentleman, he'd hate the thought of making a woman feel uncomfortable.

I agree it only matters that the OP isn’t comfortable with it, not whether any of us would be.

I personally don’t like it when men hold doors for me so that they then walk through the door behind me. I don’t like men walking close behind me, I like them where I can see them.

He refused to walk through a door she was holding open for him! He cannot insist he is treating her respectfully if he refuses to allow the same treatment back to him from her.

Because his manners are traditional and most women wouldn’t object. She can make her feelings clear but she can expect a lot of eye rolling.

This would make me very uncomfortable. Personally, I compromise with some things, for example, I thank people, young or old, of any gender, who hold open a door for me, and I politely decline 'assistance', or being touched when I don't want it. I put in my own coat, and avoid kisses/being steered, as this is what I'm happy with. YADNBU

Why is there a lack of understanding from some on here that actually, its more "respectable and gentlemanly" to not act in a way which treats her differently to how he treats men? To do things she is uncomfortable with? To not walk through a door she is holding open?

I think so too.

Did you "indulge him he's not hurting anyone" posters not read the part where he's making a woman uncomfortable or doesn't that matter?