Page 3 | Making DD do housework

AIBUmum2023 · 2023-11-07T02:15:37+00:00

So my DD disengaged from education at 16. The country we live in has mandatory education up to 18, and there was a lot of active input to try to get her back to school. My GP said to me that I need to make it so that either education or employment is better than being at home! Right now, she can’t keep her bedroom tidy, we live in a relatively new house and she’s had mould growing on the (internal) walls and the inside of the windows (which I had to clean as she refused and at the end of the day, it’s my house that is being ruined). She doesn’t put rubbish in the bin, she doesn’t put clothes in for washing, she never changes her bed sheets, she doesn’t brush her teeth, she doesn’t shower. She says she can’t get a job or do a college course because she has anxiety, for which she is medicated, when she bothers to take the medication and she literally spends all day (and night) in her room, watching films, chatting to her friends or trying on outfits and doing make up. A couple of months ago, I told her that I would take her devices away until her room was clean and she snuck out of the house, sent a text that she was in a “safe” place, said she didn’t feel safe at home and went off for a week, where we didn’t know where she was, so we left her to her own devices. She returned home, said that she owned her devices and that if we took them off her, then she would call the police as that’s theft. To which I said that we (her dad and I) paid for her SIM card, bought her the phone and laptop, paid for everything for her, including her clothes and the broadband she uses, and should we be calling the police for her essentially stealing our SIM card and broadband? I said this to show her how ridiculous she was being. Since then, I’ve managed to get her to change her bed sheets once, help me change my bed and launder my bedlinens twice and she’s also done her brother’s bedding once (he works a 40 hour week, which would be 42.5 hours but he gets a 30 minute meal break, and he works shifts. He also pays keep, as we pay for everything for him, except his smokes and clothes). She averages once a week for vacuuming common areas and mopping floors. Twice a month for cleaning her bathroom. The only thing I absolutely insist she does is hanging out the washing to dry, emptying and refilling the dishwasher, feeding the cats twice a day, and cleaning the litter boxes. Last week, she said she was going to stay the night with her friend - she came back late Monday night after a week away. She then asked why neither DH or I had contacted her and DH said that we had been here and she should have contacted us to let us know she was staying away so long. She did phone me on her way home, saying she had missed me and could I collect her from the train station! DH went. She can’t cook, even though I try to get her to help me in the kitchen and she says that she has an eating disorder, which the psychologist she has started seeing for her anxiety, told her that she has. A couple of years ago, she was seeing a counsellor about her refusal to go to school, and at that time, she came home saying that the counsellor (who isn’t allowed to diagnose anything due to only having a 1 year certificate from college) said that she had PTSD and ADHD (which she has never been diagnosed with, and that no one else has said either). She is having an assessment done to see if she has an eating disorder. She has gone through a stage where she refused to eat with the family, but then I caught her eating late at night (think 2 am) and also eating lots of junk food (getting her friends to order her Uber eats in the middle of the night), but she will tell the GP, for example, that she doesn’t eat as she’s not hungry, and has no appetite. There is no bullying or anything in her past, in fact she was a very popular girl with lots of friends and she did very well at school, although to hear her now, she can’t add up 2+2, doesn’t know how many grams in kilo, etc., etc., and I told DH that I think she has weaponised incompetence because things she could perfectly well, she will now say that she can’t do, and never has been able to do. Anyway, this morning (Tuesday, I’m a lot ahead of the UK), she comes and says to me that she thought that everything would fall apart without her here as she’s the glue that holds the family and house together. To which I just stared at her, in disbelief and shook my head! Both DH and I have refused to give her money, or buy clothes, makeup, hair dye etc., for her, and we’ve said she either goes back to her job (which was a casual job but she was being trained in lots of different areas, such as cashing up, etc., and didn’t have to restock shelves or anything like that, so not strenuous), finds another full time job, or goes back to education and gets a qualification (if you drop out of school before the end of the school year where you turn 18, you don’t get a qualification at all). So, my dear fellow parents, am I being unreasonable with my demands of daily dishwashing emptying/refilling, laundry hanging out and bringing in, and cat care?

Froooty · 07/11/2023 14:32

You know what else? We, as a society, have swung too far in our "acceptance" of otherness. It's kindness gone way over the top until it's actually a negative, because it removes the boundaries of minimum standards in society. What an awful thing to do to a teen, to say, oh, they can't! They can't X, Y, Z. Because they're autistic. Or because they have ADHD. Or they have anxiety. Or in fact they have a disability. Imagine how horrible that is for a moment, boxing someone in as being useless and having nothing to contribute? It's cruel. It reduces anyone not bog-standard-normal into being a nothing.

And that's the answer to why teens manipulate their surroundings with the excuse of "mental health" being the answer to everything. Not because they necessarily want to get attention, but because everyone around them also gives a free pass to do anything at all and there is no expectation of basic standards of behaviour. This generation has literally grown up with their teachers and peers not arguing when they make stupid choices or behave poorly; teachers out of a fear of discrimination and a lack of time for all 30 kids doing this shit; and fellow students who have learned from their teachers to be "tolerant" and let crappy behaviour go, under the guise of being understanding.

End result... everyone considers themselves to be not neurotypical. Everyone's got anxiety. Everyone is struggling with their mental health and needs you to be kind.

And yeah, my kid included. She was diagnosed ASD as a 5yo. She's insisted since that her psych said she is not. She's added every new fashionable condition and diagnosis to her arsenal one by one over the years, and it's attention-seeking behaviour, because her online peers all have one or more of them and they are her "support network", ie, the other kids that bend over backwards to "be kind" instead of encouraging her to achieve anything. And OP, I'd put money that it's the same thing with your DD's friends. After all, why would other teens care if she never works? She has acceptance already exactly as she is there. Why change?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/11/2023 14:27

I’d still be suspicious!

Not caring about appearance is another one. Burnout can take years not months to recover from.

Dont know what else to say! She sounds like a typical ASD girl who has flown under the radar for years. Again I’d be interested to know what criteria the assessor used.

Does she fit into any of this?

https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Keeping-it-all-inside.pdf

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 14:21

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/11/2023 14:06

Refusing to go back after Covid.

Hiding in the toilet to avoid demands.

All ND stuff.

My Dd is 17 and ASD. She’s exactly the same. And yes they can choose stuff they want to do, as this calms them. But demands or other stuff they often can’t do.

Id treat her with low demand and see how she fares.

We have. We spent months making no demands and nothing changed. We asked her what she felt she could reasonably achieve and then said ok just do those things when you can. She didn't do those things.

All she wants to do is her online games/streamers and talk to her friends. Literally that. She'll go out to meet them, she doesn't care about her appearance (clothes wise) as she says she shouldn't have to conform to societal standards but she always has top notch make up on.

I suggested a beauty course but apparently I was being misogynistic for suggesting it!

She says there's nothing wrong with just wanting to do the online games, chat to friends etc., because the only reason for cleaning is because society tells us too (although, you know, mould!!). Apparently it's ridiculous of me to have these "high" standards because none of her friends parents do (it's true, I've been inside some of their houses), and what's the point in cleaning because you have to do it again and again and the definition of madness is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome (I think she was inferring I was mad because I keep cleaning and the house gets dirty again - teen logic at its finest).

She also doesn't realise that the only reason she is able to live the way she does is because we support her! If she lived on her own, she would have to get a job and make her own money. But then, she says that's irrelevant because she doesn't live on her own! 🙄

OP posts:

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/11/2023 14:10

Do they know how girls differ from boys in ASD presentation in your country. Are they using male criteria to assess her.?

Taking screens away will always upset ND. They use them to regulate.

Take a look at the Autistic Girls Network checklist. She sounds in burnout.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/11/2023 14:06

Refusing to go back after Covid.

Hiding in the toilet to avoid demands.

All ND stuff.

My Dd is 17 and ASD. She’s exactly the same. And yes they can choose stuff they want to do, as this calms them. But demands or other stuff they often can’t do.

Id treat her with low demand and see how she fares.

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 14:05

theduchessofspork · 07/11/2023 13:50

A 6pm curfew until 18 isn’t normal OP, neither is a 9pm curfew now (why does she need a curfew?!) and neither is refusing for a teen to go on sleepovers unless you know the parents well (for a 6 year old yes, a 15 year old, no.)

It must be very frustrating dealing with her right now, but these are peculiar rules that she grew up with, which will not have helped with independence.

I’d get a second opinion on depression and ADHD as it really sounds like both may (may) be in play, and if so appropriate medication may help.

Sort that out, get her medication sorted (even if it’s just the existing anxiety meds) and then I think you all need a break from each other - I would move heaven on earth to make a gap year in Australia (or whatever - anything) and fund a ticket. I think she’ll do much better out on her own.

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All her friends has the same curfew and one still has the 6pm curfew. And where we live, everything closes at 9pm! The only bad news we get locally, is teens who don't have a curfew and stay out drinking, drunk driving and doing donuts, crashing into people's cars and houses! And we would have to send her to the UK I think, but perhaps only in the UK summer! We have relatives all over the world, she knows this and I've offered to send her wherever she wants to go, but she doesn't want to go anywhere without her friends and I couldn't afford to send all of them! And her brothers pretty much grew up with the same rules!

OP posts:

theduchessofspork · 07/11/2023 13:55

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/11/2023 12:40

In answer to your initial question, I don't think you are BU to expect her to do a fair share of household chores. I don't think she should have to take responsibility for her brother's laundry, but otherwise, what you're asking her to do is entirely reasonable.

And I know that you didn't ask for opinions on your parenting style or the wider issues, but I do feel compelled to comment. Ignore it if you wish, but it is genuinely meant in the spirit of being helpful.

I think you sound very dismissive of your dd's issuet. It comes across as if you think that there isn't really anything wrong with her, so she needs to just pull herself together.

I accept that she might not have had any formal diagnosis, and this might be frustrating, but the fact is that there is clearly something very wrong with your dd's mental health. From what you describe, she has gone from being a happy, engaged and successful young woman to being an anxious, withdrawn and disengaged one. I'm pretty sure that she would not choose to live like this if something wasn't wrong. At her age, she should be out and about making the most of what life has to offer. There is a reason why she has stopped living a full life, whether you have a label/diagnosis to stick on that reason or not.

You sound disappointed in her and frustrated with her. No matter how hard you try, this is probably coming across. The thing is, she is probably disappointed and frustrated with herself. She needs help, not judgement. And yes, I know you've paid for therapy etc so you're trying. And it must be very hard if you're also coming to terms with your own disability, which you said is a recent development. You have a lot on your plate, and I sympathise. But your dd is clearly very unhappy and you don't need a doctor to diagnose this. If she could flip a switch and suddenly be happy again, I'm sure that she would choose that option.

Agreed.

theduchessofspork · 07/11/2023 13:50

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 11:21

@VORE

I think we’re normal parents as our other kids aren’t like this.

She is expected to get up by 8 am , with bed made, and not go back to bed, but this is complicated by the fact that I will often nap in the day as I have difficulties that impact my sleep and then she will go back to bed/sit in her room doing whatever she does.

Her curfew was 6pm, until she turned 18 and now it’s 9pm, which isn’t a massive concession, as everything closes at 9pm anyway! She also wasn’t allowed to go to sleepovers, unless I knew both parents really, really well.

She has always been in proper therapy and these assessments spring from whatever she’s saying in her therapy sessions, hence this ED assessment now, even though neither her dad or I see any evidence of an ED, and her weight is stable.

I’m going to talk to my husband about the points you raise as I think it’s helpful as you’ve been that kid.

I also want to say that I think it’s awful that your parents showed the world how much they loved you by buying you things, but showed you that they didn’t by not putting boundaries in place. You have made a success of your life in spite of them, not because of them, and you need to always remember that. And you have been successful, regardless of material things, or jobs, or anything else. You’ve taken the time to help a complete stranger, and that means a lot to me 🌺

A 6pm curfew until 18 isn’t normal OP, neither is a 9pm curfew now (why does she need a curfew?!) and neither is refusing for a teen to go on sleepovers unless you know the parents well (for a 6 year old yes, a 15 year old, no.)

It must be very frustrating dealing with her right now, but these are peculiar rules that she grew up with, which will not have helped with independence.

I’d get a second opinion on depression and ADHD as it really sounds like both may (may) be in play, and if so appropriate medication may help.

Sort that out, get her medication sorted (even if it’s just the existing anxiety meds) and then I think you all need a break from each other - I would move heaven on earth to make a gap year in Australia (or whatever - anything) and fund a ticket. I think she’ll do much better out on her own.

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 13:46

@VORE

I wanted t8 say a big thank you for your continuing contributions to this thread!

I’ve found them very helpful and can see my DD in the the things that you’re saying.

You express yourself very well and I hope your parents are very proud of you and your accomplishments.

I hope that perhaps in 10 years from now, my DD will also have accomplished the things she wants too. And I think my DH and I have to help her.

I shall certainly be asking for parenting tips from you! 🌺🌺

OP posts:

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/11/2023 13:45

VORE · 07/11/2023 13:26

Its been proven that teenagers cannot process consequences the same way as adults do and do not possess the ability to empathise in the same way adults do. They don’t actually develop the ability to empathise properly until they are 25.

Teenagers by nature are incredibly self centred and don’t have the emotional maturity needed to process feelings outside of ‘I don’t want to do this so I am going to say/do this thing so I can get out of it’ regardless of whether it is the right or wrong thing to do. All they care about is what serves them at that moment. And yes I can 10000% see myself using MH issues as a way of getting out of things I didn’t want to do as a teenager and yes I lived in squalor as a teenager because I could - because at the time it did not serve me in anyway to not.

Edited

Fair enough. This is nothing like the emotionally healthy teens that I know, so I don't agree with the blanket way in which you have phrased this post, but I accept that some kids might function in this way.

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 13:42

Froooty · 07/11/2023 13:37

Well yes, you are. It was a year before we moved the bed. And when she left, she was fine, she just didn't think any of her failed jobs "good enough for her" - she first just went into an ordinary city owned flat. It wasn't the UK, and in that country they will literally leave you alone and hand you unemployment benefits and just let you find work yourself. It was only after a year when they put slight pressure on the job finding game that she began to say she was too anxious and from there they put her in supported housing.

I know my kid. Her anxiety was increased by her disengaging with things like school/work/society in favour of being online for the entire day on game websites. But she's riding this life now, 12 years and counting, and despite a decade of counselling, the only thing she does is "talk" about going back to education. It's too easy to sit back and let others support her.

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This is my DD! Watching streamers, playing minecraft, SIMS, chatting with friends and only wanting to go out to meet up with friends! She has said that our house is her “safe” space, but then has gone out and not come home for days and not letting us know she’s safe! But she doesn’t have boyfriends or anything and I know that she’s been where she’s said she’s been. But I don’t want it to become a situation where she’s living in housing on benefits. I’m actually unsure of whether she could even get benefits!

OP posts:

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/11/2023 13:41

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 13:25

Thank you for your words, they made me want to cry. It was after the Covid lockdown at the beginning of 2020 that she didn’t want to go to school. I think it was because school gave the option to stay at home or go in person, and DD preferred to stay at home. And then it was as if she found being at home easier and didn’t even want to go for walks, only going out to meet up with friends. Then it was not doing schoolwork because she was up all night talking to friends and watching streamers. And then because of the all nighters, she started refusing to go to school, and then the education department became involved and we had to take her for counselling, which led to CAHMS, which led to nothing, but back to refusing to go to school, which became a big battle field and nothing seemed to help, and now we’re here. And I am frustrated, not just with her, but myself, my body is literally giving up on me, I won’t live to see retirement and I’ll be lucky to see 60. I’m frustrated with the situation really. It’s not really about her room, or her not wanting to help out, it’s a lot more for me. But if, and I know it’s a big IF, I can do something, anything, to help her, I will do it. Vore gave me some good advice and I think I’ll talk to my DH about the strategies she suggested as she’s been through it, though for different reasons and she was my DD once upon a time. Also, I’ve always been a parent who’s been able to help my kids and see them through things but nothing seems to work with her. So, here we are.

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I'm sorry, OP. It sounds very hard and I understand the frustration completely. It must be incredibly difficult to deal with this on top of all of your anxieties and fears in relation to your own health. I feel for you.

I think lockdown was very damaging for a lot of kids. It sounds like your dd went into some kind of downward spiral from there, and she has somehow got stuck and can't get herself out. She might be manipulative at times, but I honestly don't think she is simply manipulating you though to get out of doing stuff that she doesn't want to do. She clearly had dreams and aspirations before - what has happened to those? I suspect that she is deeply unhappy with how things are working out and that her self esteem is at rock bottom, but just doesn't know how to get herself out of it. I wouldn't underestimate the impact on her of your health issues, either... they might be affecting her more than you realise.

I think one of the hardest things that we deal with as parents as our kids get older is that we find that we can no longer "fix" things for them when they go wrong. It's so easy when they're little! But now, while you can help and support your dd as much as you possibly can, it might be that you won't actually be able to do anything to get her out of her current slump... she might have to do it for herself. Perhaps you actually need to let yourself off the hook a bit and to accept that you haven't got all the answers... and that's OK?

Froooty · 07/11/2023 13:37

riotlady · 07/11/2023 06:45

Am I missing something here- your daughter with anxiety stopped attending school so you put her bed in the dining room?

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Well yes, you are. It was a year before we moved the bed. And when she left, she was fine, she just didn't think any of her failed jobs "good enough for her" - she first just went into an ordinary city owned flat. It wasn't the UK, and in that country they will literally leave you alone and hand you unemployment benefits and just let you find work yourself. It was only after a year when they put slight pressure on the job finding game that she began to say she was too anxious and from there they put her in supported housing.

I know my kid. Her anxiety was increased by her disengaging with things like school/work/society in favour of being online for the entire day on game websites. But she's riding this life now, 12 years and counting, and despite a decade of counselling, the only thing she does is "talk" about going back to education. It's too easy to sit back and let others support her.

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 13:36

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/11/2023 13:09

But why do you think she would try to manipulate everyone into thinking that she's mentally unwell. Just to get out of doing stuff that she doesn't want to do? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Her life sounds pretty miserable and empty. Why would a healthy young woman choose to live like that?

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Please read the replies from @VORE as she has a lot of insight into the teenage mind and how my DD might be processing things!

OP posts:

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 13:34

Renamed · 07/11/2023 13:05

YABVU getting her to clean her BROTHER’S room, he needs to be responsible for that!

She has never cleaned her brothers room! She washed his bedsheets once, as it was his day and he works long shifts and is out of the house for ~13 hours so she literally put his bedlinens in the machine, hung them out to dry, and remade his bed. The most cleaning she does for any member of the house is vacuuming and mopping the communal areas.

OP posts:

VORE · 07/11/2023 13:26

Its been proven that teenagers cannot process consequences the same way as adults do and do not possess the ability to empathise in the same way adults do. They don’t actually develop the ability to empathise properly until they are 25.

Teenagers by nature are incredibly self centred and don’t have the emotional maturity needed to process feelings outside of ‘I don’t want to do this so I am going to say/do this thing so I can get out of it’ regardless of whether it is the right or wrong thing to do. All they care about is what serves them at that moment. And yes I can 10000% see myself using MH issues as a way of getting out of things I didn’t want to do as a teenager and yes I lived in squalor as a teenager because I could - because at the time it did not serve me in anyway to not.

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 13:25

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/11/2023 12:40

In answer to your initial question, I don't think you are BU to expect her to do a fair share of household chores. I don't think she should have to take responsibility for her brother's laundry, but otherwise, what you're asking her to do is entirely reasonable.

And I know that you didn't ask for opinions on your parenting style or the wider issues, but I do feel compelled to comment. Ignore it if you wish, but it is genuinely meant in the spirit of being helpful.

I think you sound very dismissive of your dd's issuet. It comes across as if you think that there isn't really anything wrong with her, so she needs to just pull herself together.

I accept that she might not have had any formal diagnosis, and this might be frustrating, but the fact is that there is clearly something very wrong with your dd's mental health. From what you describe, she has gone from being a happy, engaged and successful young woman to being an anxious, withdrawn and disengaged one. I'm pretty sure that she would not choose to live like this if something wasn't wrong. At her age, she should be out and about making the most of what life has to offer. There is a reason why she has stopped living a full life, whether you have a label/diagnosis to stick on that reason or not.

You sound disappointed in her and frustrated with her. No matter how hard you try, this is probably coming across. The thing is, she is probably disappointed and frustrated with herself. She needs help, not judgement. And yes, I know you've paid for therapy etc so you're trying. And it must be very hard if you're also coming to terms with your own disability, which you said is a recent development. You have a lot on your plate, and I sympathise. But your dd is clearly very unhappy and you don't need a doctor to diagnose this. If she could flip a switch and suddenly be happy again, I'm sure that she would choose that option.

Thank you for your words, they made me want to cry. It was after the Covid lockdown at the beginning of 2020 that she didn’t want to go to school. I think it was because school gave the option to stay at home or go in person, and DD preferred to stay at home. And then it was as if she found being at home easier and didn’t even want to go for walks, only going out to meet up with friends. Then it was not doing schoolwork because she was up all night talking to friends and watching streamers. And then because of the all nighters, she started refusing to go to school, and then the education department became involved and we had to take her for counselling, which led to CAHMS, which led to nothing, but back to refusing to go to school, which became a big battle field and nothing seemed to help, and now we’re here. And I am frustrated, not just with her, but myself, my body is literally giving up on me, I won’t live to see retirement and I’ll be lucky to see 60. I’m frustrated with the situation really. It’s not really about her room, or her not wanting to help out, it’s a lot more for me. But if, and I know it’s a big IF, I can do something, anything, to help her, I will do it. Vore gave me some good advice and I think I’ll talk to my DH about the strategies she suggested as she’s been through it, though for different reasons and she was my DD once upon a time. Also, I’ve always been a parent who’s been able to help my kids and see them through things but nothing seems to work with her. So, here we are.

OP posts:

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/11/2023 13:09

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 12:58

You know, if you look for ND, you’ll find it everywhere! I can’t remember who said it, but someone said something along the lines of “we are all on the spectrum somewhere”.

However, sometimes, a snail is just a snail, not a snake in disguise!

My DD is extremely intelligent (oh look, another ND thing!). She has managed to make counsellors and psychologists believe that she has all sorts of things, that under assessment and testing, she doesn’t have. She describes perfectly “symptoms” that she has that match PTSD, or ADHD, etc., but she doesn’t have these things, unless of course, you’re suggesting that the testing for all conditions isn’t strong enough and so she has “slipped through the cracks” for everything?

I have sat and watched DD manipulate people! It’s quite awesome and awe-inspiring actually. This is why part of me doesn’t believe the anxiety thing, because she only uses to her benefit, when she doesn’t want to do something!

She used to hide in the toilet, literally an hour in the toilet at a time, multiple times per day, so I told I was going to ask the GP to refer her for investigations as it wasn’t normal. She actually admitted that she just used to go in the toilet to get out of doing things and she just watched twitch steamers on her phone or talked to her friends!

Left to her own devices, to do whatever she wants, she never has anxiety. Both DH and I have tested this, and it works. As long as we don’t ask her to do anything, she’s anxiety free, happy, eats well, and does whatever she wants. After a few days, we might ask her to bring her rubbish out of her room as it’s bin day the next day and she can’t look for the rubbish in her room as she’s anxious. Or she can’t feed the cats because she’s anxious. Or whatever we’ve asked of her. Anxiety.

So you might believe that every psychiatrist, psychologist, paediatrician and specialist she’s seen isn’t up to snuff and doesn’t know anything, but since she’s seen more than one of each type, and I find it hard to believe they’re all rubbish, I think I’ll let the qualified and registered (according to you, useless and rubbish) experts do the diagnosing for now.

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But why do you think she would try to manipulate everyone into thinking that she's mentally unwell. Just to get out of doing stuff that she doesn't want to do? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Her life sounds pretty miserable and empty. Why would a healthy young woman choose to live like that?

Renamed · 07/11/2023 13:05

YABVU getting her to clean her BROTHER’S room, he needs to be responsible for that!

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 12:58

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/11/2023 12:32

Family friends that she’s known for years will come round and she won’t even come out of her room to say hello, because of anxiety, and she seems to use anxiety as an excuse to get out of doing things that she doesn’t want to

Another ND thing

You know, if you look for ND, you’ll find it everywhere! I can’t remember who said it, but someone said something along the lines of “we are all on the spectrum somewhere”.

However, sometimes, a snail is just a snail, not a snake in disguise!

My DD is extremely intelligent (oh look, another ND thing!). She has managed to make counsellors and psychologists believe that she has all sorts of things, that under assessment and testing, she doesn’t have. She describes perfectly “symptoms” that she has that match PTSD, or ADHD, etc., but she doesn’t have these things, unless of course, you’re suggesting that the testing for all conditions isn’t strong enough and so she has “slipped through the cracks” for everything?

I have sat and watched DD manipulate people! It’s quite awesome and awe-inspiring actually. This is why part of me doesn’t believe the anxiety thing, because she only uses to her benefit, when she doesn’t want to do something!

She used to hide in the toilet, literally an hour in the toilet at a time, multiple times per day, so I told I was going to ask the GP to refer her for investigations as it wasn’t normal. She actually admitted that she just used to go in the toilet to get out of doing things and she just watched twitch steamers on her phone or talked to her friends!

Left to her own devices, to do whatever she wants, she never has anxiety. Both DH and I have tested this, and it works. As long as we don’t ask her to do anything, she’s anxiety free, happy, eats well, and does whatever she wants. After a few days, we might ask her to bring her rubbish out of her room as it’s bin day the next day and she can’t look for the rubbish in her room as she’s anxious. Or she can’t feed the cats because she’s anxious. Or whatever we’ve asked of her. Anxiety.

So you might believe that every psychiatrist, psychologist, paediatrician and specialist she’s seen isn’t up to snuff and doesn’t know anything, but since she’s seen more than one of each type, and I find it hard to believe they’re all rubbish, I think I’ll let the qualified and registered (according to you, useless and rubbish) experts do the diagnosing for now.

OP posts:

VORE · 07/11/2023 12:54

@AIBUmum2023 thanks for the kind words!

Yes has absolutely no boundaries, would disappear for days on end with no one questioning where I was, no actual interest was ever shown in my schooling (until I failed), no one would even make sure I had gotten up to go to school, I had lots of completely inappropriate much older boyfriends (looking for love anywhere I could find it) that my parents let me do whatever whenever with and never thought I might need protecting from.

and then they were completely shocked and appalled when I failed school because I had been ‘generously’ given all this lovely freedom and all these material things. Even though they had done sweet FA to actually parent me the entire time. I just had money thrown at me as a way of dealing with me.

So it was a big old shock when suddenly they swung the complete other way and started to suddenly parent me very strictly at the age of 17. And however 💩 of a job I think they did in general, I am grateful for the fact they came down so hard on me in a time in my life where I really could have gone completely off the rails and my life could have gone in a very different direction.

I went to university, got a good degree which has meant I’ve got a very good career now which pays for all the therapy I need to get over having parents like them 😂

And I can also say that looking back at that time I was also incredibly entitled and spoilt and can only imagine how much worse teenagers can be nowadays with the advent of tiktok etc justifying everything as ‘trauma’ and a ‘mental health issue’ (and I say this as someone with a boat load of MH issues and trauma 😂.)

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/11/2023 12:40

In answer to your initial question, I don't think you are BU to expect her to do a fair share of household chores. I don't think she should have to take responsibility for her brother's laundry, but otherwise, what you're asking her to do is entirely reasonable.

And I know that you didn't ask for opinions on your parenting style or the wider issues, but I do feel compelled to comment. Ignore it if you wish, but it is genuinely meant in the spirit of being helpful.

I think you sound very dismissive of your dd's issuet. It comes across as if you think that there isn't really anything wrong with her, so she needs to just pull herself together.

I accept that she might not have had any formal diagnosis, and this might be frustrating, but the fact is that there is clearly something very wrong with your dd's mental health. From what you describe, she has gone from being a happy, engaged and successful young woman to being an anxious, withdrawn and disengaged one. I'm pretty sure that she would not choose to live like this if something wasn't wrong. At her age, she should be out and about making the most of what life has to offer. There is a reason why she has stopped living a full life, whether you have a label/diagnosis to stick on that reason or not.

You sound disappointed in her and frustrated with her. No matter how hard you try, this is probably coming across. The thing is, she is probably disappointed and frustrated with herself. She needs help, not judgement. And yes, I know you've paid for therapy etc so you're trying. And it must be very hard if you're also coming to terms with your own disability, which you said is a recent development. You have a lot on your plate, and I sympathise. But your dd is clearly very unhappy and you don't need a doctor to diagnose this. If she could flip a switch and suddenly be happy again, I'm sure that she would choose that option.

monsteramunch · 07/11/2023 12:39

Family friends that she’s known for years will come round and she won’t even come out of her room to say hello, because of anxiety, and she seems to use anxiety as an excuse to get out of doing things that she doesn’t want to

Or maybe there are things she doesn't want to do because she is anxious. You're framing it as an 'excuse' when it could just be a 'reason', a much less loaded word. That's not to say she shouldn't / can't work on these things but you're dismissive of what may well be a very valid reason for struggling with certain things / situations.

Original poster

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 12:38

monsteramunch · 07/11/2023 12:27

Okay, again, she is most definitely not ND; in this country, the screening for ASD is very robust and includes separate assessments by specially trained experts in ASD, undertaken over several sessions, by OT’s, paediatricians, SLT’s, psychologists, and physiotherapists, as well as reports from school, and the GP.

I think saying someone is "most definitely not ND" shows a huge lack of understanding of neurodiversity. Many people slip through the cracks and go undiagnosed for large stretches of time, even if they undergo rigorous assessments. You mention the in depth screening for ASD specifically but the ND umbrella is huge.

I can’t really go into the ND too much because it would be too outing! But please, pleas, believe me when I say she’s isn’t on any spectrum. And yes, I can categorically state this. I’ve name changed so it’s not me (iykwim), but you, and other posters, will have to take my word for this. If she was ND, it would be easier to know how to parent, but that style has been tried as well and got nowhere. And I mentioned ASD specifically in answer to ASD specifically.

OP posts:

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/11/2023 12:32

Family friends that she’s known for years will come round and she won’t even come out of her room to say hello, because of anxiety, and she seems to use anxiety as an excuse to get out of doing things that she doesn’t want to

Another ND thing