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Original poster

Making DD do housework

109 replies

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 02:15

So my DD disengaged from education at 16. The country we live in has mandatory education up to 18, and there was a lot of active input to try to get her back to school. My GP said to me that I need to make it so that either education or employment is better than being at home!

Right now, she can’t keep her bedroom tidy, we live in a relatively new house and she’s had mould growing on the (internal) walls and the inside of the windows (which I had to clean as she refused and at the end of the day, it’s my house that is being ruined). She doesn’t put rubbish in the bin, she doesn’t put clothes in for washing, she never changes her bed sheets, she doesn’t brush her teeth, she doesn’t shower. She says she can’t get a job or do a college course because she has anxiety, for which she is medicated, when she bothers to take the medication and she literally spends all day (and night) in her room, watching films, chatting to her friends or trying on outfits and doing make up.

A couple of months ago, I told her that I would take her devices away until her room was clean and she snuck out of the house, sent a text that she was in a “safe” place, said she didn’t feel safe at home and went off for a week, where we didn’t know where she was, so we left her to her own devices. She returned home, said that she owned her devices and that if we took them off her, then she would call the police as that’s theft. To which I said that we (her dad and I) paid for her SIM card, bought her the phone and laptop, paid for everything for her, including her clothes and the broadband she uses, and should we be calling the police for her essentially stealing our SIM card and broadband? I said this to show her how ridiculous she was being.

Since then, I’ve managed to get her to change her bed sheets once, help me change my bed and launder my bedlinens twice and she’s also done her brother’s bedding once (he works a 40 hour week, which would be 42.5 hours but he gets a 30 minute meal break, and he works shifts. He also pays keep, as we pay for everything for him, except his smokes and clothes). She averages once a week for vacuuming common areas and mopping floors. Twice a month for cleaning her bathroom. The only thing I absolutely insist she does is hanging out the washing to dry, emptying and refilling the dishwasher, feeding the cats twice a day, and cleaning the litter boxes.

Last week, she said she was going to stay the night with her friend - she came back late Monday night after a week away. She then asked why neither DH or I had contacted her and DH said that we had been here and she should have contacted us to let us know she was staying away so long. She did phone me on her way home, saying she had missed me and could I collect her from the train station! DH went.

She can’t cook, even though I try to get her to help me in the kitchen and she says that she has an eating disorder, which the psychologist she has started seeing for her anxiety, told her that she has. A couple of years ago, she was seeing a counsellor about her refusal to go to school, and at that time, she came home saying that the counsellor (who isn’t allowed to diagnose anything due to only having a 1 year certificate from college) said that she had PTSD and ADHD (which she has never been diagnosed with, and that no one else has said either). She is having an assessment done to see if she has an eating disorder.

She has gone through a stage where she refused to eat with the family, but then I caught her eating late at night (think 2 am) and also eating lots of junk food (getting her friends to order her Uber eats in the middle of the night), but she will tell the GP, for example, that she doesn’t eat as she’s not hungry, and has no appetite.

There is no bullying or anything in her past, in fact she was a very popular girl with lots of friends and she did very well at school, although to hear her now, she can’t add up 2+2, doesn’t know how many grams in kilo, etc., etc., and I told DH that I think she has weaponised incompetence because things she could perfectly well, she will now say that she can’t do, and never has been able to do.

Anyway, this morning (Tuesday, I’m a lot ahead of the UK), she comes and says to me that she thought that everything would fall apart without her here as she’s the glue that holds the family and house together. To which I just stared at her, in disbelief and shook my head!

Both DH and I have refused to give her money, or buy clothes, makeup, hair dye etc., for her, and we’ve said she either goes back to her job (which was a casual job but she was being trained in lots of different areas, such as cashing up, etc., and didn’t have to restock shelves or anything like that, so not strenuous), finds another full time job, or goes back to education and gets a qualification (if you drop out of school before the end of the school year where you turn 18, you don’t get a qualification at all).

So, my dear fellow parents, am I being unreasonable with my demands of daily dishwashing emptying/refilling, laundry hanging out and bringing in, and cat care?

OP posts:
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Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 11/11/2023 10:38

@Gloriously

Rather strangely, since I posted, she has been better. I'm still having to prompt and remind, but she's generally been doing things when she's been asked.

I did talk to her about disconnecting more from the internet and the phone, and did remind her that me paying for these things for her are a privilege, not a right. She said that she couldn't live without internet and phone (!!!) and I said that we managed, especially because she's not engaged in study or looking for work, and then last night she helped me with the pantry, and she's been much better today as well. Mind you, yesterday I had to pay her counselling bill (175) and on Monday, she has her ED assessment (110), so it might be that's why she's being so helpful - I hate myself for being so suspicious but in the past, she has said things like "I love you mum, can I have xx amount of money for xyz thing", and I feel that she says the I love you bit, for the money, whereas I would prefer a more straightforward "mum, can I have money for xyz". I make sure she doesn't go without, her travel card is automatically topped up out of my bank and I've offered to buy her a car as well.

I think I just feel a bit, I don't know, unappreciated? We've given her things, like private education that her older siblings didn't have. Partly because when starting out, we didn't have heaps of money and her and her brother who is one year older came along later on, so the older siblings were in secondary school. I don't expect her to bow down every time she sees me or anything, but I don't think asking for a little housework help is a big thing. Although today, she did a load of laundry, but forgot the litter trays, even though one is actually in the laundry room! I've tried to prompt her to put reminders on her phone, but she doesn't want to, for whatever reason.

Also, it's like she's got this ED assessment coming up, but she's been eating heaps (I am monitoring to make sure she's not sneaking to her bathroom to purge), and I'm wondering if that's because I'm just making sure to get her food that I know she'll eat. I don't want to mention it to her because she's doing really well with the eating.

Thank you for checking in. It means a lot 🌺

OP posts:
Gloriously · 11/11/2023 07:13

@AIBUmum2023 how are things for you now - have you had any further discussions / reflections with your DH and DD about a way forward ?

Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 19:10

@BadSkiingMum

The time difference makes it quite hard sometimes as I’m quite a bit ahead of the UK, but I try to reply to all posts, unless it’s something I’ve already posted about.

I definitely agree with you about the social media aspect of technology and although I think some of the technological advances have been excellent, especially in healthcare and medicine, online grooming and even catfishing proves that technology isn’t always wonderful.

The all day and half the night phone marathons are on mobile phones. I’ve told her in the past that they should just meet up, but apparently it’s better when they can stay at home instead! I do sometimes think that because there’s a lot of nature/beach stuff to do around here, but not much in the way of nightclubs (a grand total of 0), and just some pubs/bars which are full of some unsavoury people, internet and the phone are what teens use to entertain themselves. But this is a guess really. For perspective, we’ve only had Sunday opening for about 10 years, so we’re not setting the world on fire in terms of things to occupy people’s minds! The city isn’t too far, and there’s museums, galleries, cinemas etc., there but the kids don’t seem to want to go there regularly for evenings out, so they stay local and go for meals, etc. Possibly because none of them have much money!

We have DVD box sets and a player, although I can’t remember the last time that we watched a DVD! Maybe it’s time to dust off the Vicar of Dibley 🙂

OP posts:
BadSkiingMum · 08/11/2023 18:39

Hello, @AIBUmum2023.
Thanks for your response - it can sometimes feel like posting into the wind on here when you write a long post and don’t get anything back! Anyway…

I think it is sometimes helpful to imagine the non-digital equivalent of online behaviours, especially when thinking about children and young people.

For example, would teenagers in the nineties have been allowed to print out photos of themselves, write their name and a means of being contacted on them and post them through strangers’ front doors? No, because that would have been seen as bizarrely risky. But somehow it’s ok to do the equivalent on social media.

The idea of your DD spending the entire day on the landline phone to a friend is bonkers. Utterly absurd. Is it just because the calls are free that it’s seen as ok? When did this change happen? Even the most phone-crazy teen would have been made to hang up eventually.

I am all for technology, but how have we, as a society, got into this state?

I honestly think that cold-turkey on the internet is the only way for your DD to break this pattern. Your DH can buy some DVD box sets and a cheap DVD player!

Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 17:26

@muggart

I know when I'm venting it must seem as if I'm a hypercritical, nagging, helicopter parent, when in fact I'm not at all.

Many years ago, I read a poem about how children learn to communicate and one line has always stuck with me:

If you criticise a child, they will only ever be critical.

My dad (he who says we should just let DD relax!), was always critical and if I didn't get 100%, I clearly hadn't tried my best! I have deliberately gone out of my way to not be like him! With any of the DC.

So yes, whilst I will remind her to do things, such as feeding the cats, when she doesn't do it, because she "needs a minute", I'll do it myself. The problems arise when I'm not home and she's the only one at home. We've had situations where I've called her at around 9am to remind her to feed the cats and she'll say she will and then I'll call again in the evening to remind her to feed them, then I'll get home and they haven't been fed! And she will day she forgot! 5/7 days, I'll empty the dishwasher when I get home or DH will have emptied because, she forgot. And it isn't really that she forgets these things but that she's too engrossed in watching her streamers or online gaming or chatting to her friends. She has one friend that's she's very close too, and they have spent from when they wake up, to when they go to sleep, on the phone with each other! And I'll tell her to come and get some lunch or dinner and she'll say that she can't because her phone's on charge and she would have to hang up!

As for having a curfew, there isn't anything to do past 9pm except get in to trouble, so of she's going out for the evening, 9pm is fine. It's different if she's going to a friend's house or to a party, but just going "out" to drive around or whatever, yes, I would like her to be home by 9pm and this is when her friends have to be home anyway, so what would she do by herself, when nothing is open and her friends have had to be home?

Also, I don't think there is a child alive who has been more cherished than my DD, and she freely admits that. The worst that I have ever said is about the mould! I was very annoyed about that. Even when she refuses to do things, I don't shout or criticise, since that changes nothing. I can't force her to do things, I would just like her to do those few jobs without constantly saying that she forgot.

My older DC always say that I'm too soft on her, maybe I am.

OP posts:
Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 16:57

@BadSkiingMum

Thank you for answering and there's some food for thought in your answer.

I don't want her to become a long term unemployed person and although there is a system of social security here, I don't actually (personally) know of anyone who has claimed benefits. I knew of one boy that I went to school with who claimed benefits, but that was 35 or so years ago, he had to jump through hoops to get any money, and he was only allowed to have benefits for 12 months and then he had to get a job or do something, because 12 months was the maximum that someone could claim for. I'm not sure if that's still the case though. Or I may be remembering wrongly. Also, it's not really something that I would want for DD anyway. And she wouldn't be able to afford much, if anything such as clothes etc., I shouldn't think.

I agree that she needs something to occupy her time that isn't the internet but she is so apathetic about everything. She is aware that she's enormously privileged compared to other young people, but I've made it clear to her that living off the bank of mum and dad isn't a career pathway and she'll need to find something else to do and/or some other way to fund her existence.

Unfortunately because she's now over school leaving age, she only has the option of college open to her, and there is one in the town we live in that offers a course that is similar to the school certification, and applications are open. I have told her that I am happy to pay the fees as a one off. From there she can do another course that will qualify her for some uni courses but definitely not medicine, or law. There are other routes for those subjects but she would have to do a Bachelors to qualify for them and that's a long time to have to study for, as it's essentially another 3 years, but that's for her to decide. I shall be happy if she enrols in anything!

I don't think DH would agree to have no internet at home as he does love binging on his TV shows! I have discussed with him changing the WiFi password and he said he'd think about it. He was quite tired when he got back from work but we're both off together tomorrow so I'll have a proper talk with him, and show him this thread.

OP posts:
muggart · 08/11/2023 15:42

I just want to know that DD will be living her best life when I'm not around anymore.

This is really touching, and really sad. I'm sure you've tried your best. She is not going to stay this person forever.

I apologise in advance if what I'm about write sounds critical. Your DD sounds a little like me (and my DB) when we were teens, in some ways. I think all the talk of MH is overcomplicating this. I expect she might just have very low self esteem. Do you ever give positive reinforcements to her behaviour, when it is good? It all sounds very critical and punishment-heavy. As a previous high-achiever I wonder if she got to the point where she felt worthless regardless of her achievements, which she probably only did to make her parents happy, and so stopped trying completely. She's in stage 1 of recovery from low self esteem - she's rejecting your expectations of her. However, she hasn't got to the next level which is to find her own ambitions and standards. She'll never get there either so long as you are criticising and nagging her. She'll be stuck in phase 1 until that ends.

I might be wrong of course, but that's what it seems like to me. Your parenting style seems like a toxic mix of micromanaging- for example a curfew for an 18 year old! - and an emphasis on her perceived flaws. There is no incentive for her to improve herself, no way for her to develop self worth.

Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 12:49

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 08/11/2023 08:27

I hesitate to suggest anything else diagnostically, but it might be worth looking up pathological demand avoidance and see if it seems to fit with her behaviour. Most kids whinge and try to get out of things, but spending hours in the toilet to avoid chores is fairly unusual. The other thought that occured to me was maybe something truamatic happened at school or out with a friend, at some place you weren't. It sounded like a fairly sudden change, but reading subsequent posts maybe it was an escalation of existing issues. Please ignore anything unhelpful.

Show quote history

@EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness

I was just discussing PDA last week with a colleague, although in relation to someone else! If DD didn't have a history of avoidance since such a young age, it would definitely be worth looking into more.

I realise that in my effort to not drip feed and my own need to just vent, I was a rather poor historian, and instead of being concise, I made it seem like we woke up one morning and DD had been swapped for some stranger who we didn't recognise.

Perhaps I need to start a journal!!

OP posts:
Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 11:59

@junbean

DH is fantastic but he gets quite annoyed with her constant refusals to help and excuses, and says that we should refuse to give her money or buy her anything but I don't agree and I try to be the buffer between them because I don't want her to feel like she has no one, although her siblings are supportive, but also don't understand why she won't just do something. Bizarrely they tell me off for being "too nice" to her. Apparently I should use some mythical mum "superpower" that they seem to believe I possess (I have a thing they call "The Look", which they say still scares them now 🙄) to make her "bend to my will". Pretty sure they're confusing me with a different omniscient, omnipotent power, and even He took a day off! I was thinking of doing some travelling earlier this year, to catch up with various cousins and such but it didn't happen for various reasons, so maybe next year! We'll see.

OP posts:
Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 11:35

Gloriously · 08/11/2023 07:37

Have you thought about getting your own anxiety treated @AIBUmum2023 ?

I am having psychotherapy currently and have been on medications, which I am religious about taking every day, but right now, I just constantly feel overwhelmed by everything. And I don't feel like I can keep burdening DH as I know he's worried about my health and how things will be. I sometimes wish I could run away and hide under the blankets! I just want to know that DD will be living her best life when I'm not around anymore.

OP posts:
VORE · 08/11/2023 10:37

regardless of what diagnosis she may or may not have - whether it be ND or ADHD I think we are all now so obsessed with these as ‘excuses’ for certain behaviours or letting people/teenagers do whatever they want but we are failing them because we are not teaching them how to be functioning human beings. If she does have any of these issues she needs to be taught how to function as a human being not just given carry Blanche to do whatever she wants because she is ND or whatever.

We know for a fact that these things will make any anxiety, depression of MH issue worse:

  • having no structure in your day
  • feeling like you have no purpose in life
  • staying up all night
  • staying up all night looking at screens and social media
  • social media in general
  • not taking care of yourself/no self care

OP has said that her daughter does all of the above - so I am not surprised she has ‘anxiety’ and no motivation to partake in life or look after herself.

Any therapists or MH professional will quickly tell you that one of the first steps to feeling better is to rectify all of the above.

Actually you don’t even need to see a MH professional to be told this - a quick google search will tell you.

It actually surprises me OP that if your daughter claims to have all of these anxiety issues and yet is actively doing things that WE ALL KNOW make her anxiety way worse - especially staying up all night on social media (which is what twitch effectively is). As someone with severe anxiety and OCD and how terrible this can make you feel, it does not sound like your daughter is willing to be an active participant in any sort of healing. It actually sounds like she is using this as her ‘get out of jail free’ card as she does not seem to be taking any active steps to get better apart from taking medications and getting further diagnosis’s.

Whilst at university I was staying up all night either partying or staring at a screen until 5am that surprise surprise my anxiety went through the roof and I started having panic attacks but I didn’t sit there telling everyone how awful I felt and how I couldn’t do anything but then continue to repeat the behaviour. I put myself on a strict bedtime routine and schedule, made myself get up in the morning, stopped the partying and went to the library every day to study instead and guess what… the anxiety and panic attacks went away again. When you truly suffer with these things to the point it is crippling, stopping you from performing even simple tasks and taking over your life, you don’t keep repeating behaviours that you know will make it worse, you do everything in your power to try and make it better because the alternative is just so awful.

The internet and social media especially is a vacuum, the more stuff you watch the more the algorithms will show you that content and validate your experience. Your daughter has a world full of people that will validate her self righteous feelings and entitlement and keep telling her she doesn’t have to be a functioning part of society because she has all these ‘issues’ - but this is a luxury because she has you and your husband to look after her,

How would she cope if you both died and there was no inheritance or support? Would her MH issues be so crippling then? Would she have all the ‘freedom’ to say she does not have to comply with societal standards when it was a choice between standing on her high horse or feeding/housing herself?

Take away the screens after 6pm. Stop letting her sit on social media. Make her be an active participant in the house and life. Give her a purpose. Get her outside. Get her to move her body.

I would also really recommend the book Hunt, Gather, Parent (although aimed at younger children) it’s all about getting your children to see themselves as part of the household team and I think that’s what your daughter needs right now.

BadSkiingMum · 08/11/2023 10:17

What a situation…I really feel for you.

She has not been diagnosed with anything so I am not sure that narratives around neurodiversity, mental health issues or anxiety are doing her any favours.

Her main problem seems to be an addiction to the online world.

I would unplug your router and cancel the internet for the foreseeable future. Drastic, but I think it is warranted. If someone works from your home they can rent a workspace.

Forget mould, dirt or untidiness, the overwhelming issue is that she is not in any education or training and has no plans to do so. The main priority must be for her to find a re-entry point. This must also be your priority. Otherwise her long term future looks pretty bleak indeed. At present she is a sweet, vulnerable young girl with a pattern of school refusal - in a few years time she will be a long term unemployed woman with ingrained habits of loafing around.

I’m guessing that you don’t live in a welfare state? Does she realise that she can only excuse herself from the world because her own mother is out working all hours in healthcare?

Can you speak to her previous headteacher?
Is there any special provision in your area?
Would you consider a boarding school or residential college, if it offered her a route back into education? I wouldn’t usually suggest this but it might be helpful in your daughter’s case.
What about an educational assessment?

WestwardHo1 · 08/11/2023 09:41

ZenNudist · 07/11/2023 22:34

TLDR

What an arsehole comment.

I'm sad on reading your OP. Seems as though society and education are completely failing kids. How can we have got it so bloody wrong (and I'm certainly not criticising you OP. I'd be at my wits' end too). A huge group of young people have grown up never having to tackle and succeed at anything, never learning to try,never learning to fail, never learning to take criticism, with every negative feeling they have medicalised by the internet, with every daft notion they have validated. They can't cope with anything.

Gloriously · 08/11/2023 09:32

I know that you said that your DC do not know the facts, extent and implications of your diagnosis because you haven’t yet told them everything - but they will have somatically absorbed the emotional shock and trauma that you and your DH are carrying implicitly - they will consciously and unconsciously internalise this stress and be left confused, unsettled and scared.

CliffsofMohair · 08/11/2023 09:20

Agree with @Gloriously re seeking some support around diagnosis, daughter, behavioural adaptations to anxiety.

Pumpkintastic · 08/11/2023 08:31

I thought you were going to say she was 10 op not practically an adult. If course she should be doing Housework, anxiety or no anxiety. My 11 year old with anxiety does.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 08/11/2023 08:27

AIBUmum2023 · 07/11/2023 12:58

You know, if you look for ND, you’ll find it everywhere! I can’t remember who said it, but someone said something along the lines of “we are all on the spectrum somewhere”.

However, sometimes, a snail is just a snail, not a snake in disguise!

My DD is extremely intelligent (oh look, another ND thing!). She has managed to make counsellors and psychologists believe that she has all sorts of things, that under assessment and testing, she doesn’t have. She describes perfectly “symptoms” that she has that match PTSD, or ADHD, etc., but she doesn’t have these things, unless of course, you’re suggesting that the testing for all conditions isn’t strong enough and so she has “slipped through the cracks” for everything?

I have sat and watched DD manipulate people! It’s quite awesome and awe-inspiring actually. This is why part of me doesn’t believe the anxiety thing, because she only uses to her benefit, when she doesn’t want to do something!

She used to hide in the toilet, literally an hour in the toilet at a time, multiple times per day, so I told I was going to ask the GP to refer her for investigations as it wasn’t normal. She actually admitted that she just used to go in the toilet to get out of doing things and she just watched twitch steamers on her phone or talked to her friends!

Left to her own devices, to do whatever she wants, she never has anxiety. Both DH and I have tested this, and it works. As long as we don’t ask her to do anything, she’s anxiety free, happy, eats well, and does whatever she wants. After a few days, we might ask her to bring her rubbish out of her room as it’s bin day the next day and she can’t look for the rubbish in her room as she’s anxious. Or she can’t feed the cats because she’s anxious. Or whatever we’ve asked of her. Anxiety.

So you might believe that every psychiatrist, psychologist, paediatrician and specialist she’s seen isn’t up to snuff and doesn’t know anything, but since she’s seen more than one of each type, and I find it hard to believe they’re all rubbish, I think I’ll let the qualified and registered (according to you, useless and rubbish) experts do the diagnosing for now.

Show quote history

I hesitate to suggest anything else diagnostically, but it might be worth looking up pathological demand avoidance and see if it seems to fit with her behaviour. Most kids whinge and try to get out of things, but spending hours in the toilet to avoid chores is fairly unusual. The other thought that occured to me was maybe something truamatic happened at school or out with a friend, at some place you weren't. It sounded like a fairly sudden change, but reading subsequent posts maybe it was an escalation of existing issues. Please ignore anything unhelpful.

Gloriously · 08/11/2023 07:56

@junbean 100% - great post.

Gloriously · 08/11/2023 07:54

“DH and I don’t even like to go out for the day, or the evening, because I find it too stressful as I don’t know if the cats will be fed, or the dishwasher loaded, or whether she will have cooked herself something and the kitchen’s a mess, or got a takeaway and left it all over the dining table, because she literally seems to be incapable of putting things in the bin, or the dishwasher, or wiping the kitchen counters, without me or her dad standing over her and telling her what to do. She will say she didn’t notice. How can you not notice that you haven’t put your dishes in the dishwasher, or your takeaway wrappers in the bin? There’s nothing to notice. It’s the mess you’ve literally just made. When we do go out, I will be phoning to remind her to do things, and DH hates it, because he says I spend more time on the phone to her, then I do talking to him. Because I get anxious about how the house will be. And then having to spend time cleaning up. So I may as well stay home.”

Maybe you could seek some professional psychotherapeutic help for yourself to work through these feelings of being out of control, the high anxiety and the resulting dysfunctional behavioural adaptations?

Have you had any emotional support to deal with being blindsided by the diagnosis of a life limiting condition and disability?

It also seems that professionally as a HCP working though COVID has likely left you understandably with some emotional disruption. You have a lot on your plate.

tpxqi · 08/11/2023 07:51

This thread is astounding. People forcing OP to believe that her daughter has all sorts of mental health issues when she just lacks discipline. These people are raising a generation of bedwetters. Their poor kids will grow up to find a world in which they will get steam rollered.

junbean · 08/11/2023 07:47

@AIBUmum2023

I see! Maybe pp who related to her teenage self is closer to the issue. And you definitely don't sound disengaged. I think you are doing a really good job and thought so after your first post. The fact you're asking for input/help shows what a great mother you are. As you explained you've tried everything. No matter the root cause you're exhausted. You might have more anxiety than your DD at this point. You're taking it all on yourself. Could her dad take a more active role? It sounds like your DD is safe, relatively healthy, and will do bare minimum if nagged. Could her dad do more of enforcing rules, etc. so you can take a mental health break? Maybe YOU are the one who needs a long soak with fancy bath bombs and some lazing around. Burnout is real. It's hard to come back from too. Constant stress is so damaging. Is your DH feeling the same or can he step up more, at least to give you a break before you actually break?

Gloriously · 08/11/2023 07:37

Have you thought about getting your own anxiety treated @AIBUmum2023 ?

Original poster
AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 07:21

@junbean

Over the past 3.5 years, DD has seen many different specialists, to be assessed for many different things. The only diagnosis has been anxiety.

Hygiene has been an issue since she was too old for me to bathe her, and has been a battle ever since. I decided not to make it my hill to die on. I have, and still do, buy her special bath bombs, shower gels, serums, washes etc., for her bathroom, in a bid to try to get her to shower more regularly, although I suppose that one could argue that weekly is regular. She certainly does.

Clothing and laundry have been an issue since she was very little. She doesn’t put her clothes in the laundry hamper, so we went shopping together and she chose a basket for her bedroom, which she doesn’t use. I can’t sneak in her room like I used to and pick up her dirty clothes and wash them, because she pulls regular all nighters online and I have no idea any more as to what’s clean and what’s dirty as even when I do take it upon myself (about once per month), to just pick up all visibly dirty clothes and launder them, she will take them to her room and drop them on her floor. Apparently there’s no point in putting them away because she will only need to get them out to wear them anyway!

I think that maybe my posts are coming across as if I’ve disengaged from her - nothing is further from the truth. We have regular “girls” days out, and “girls” nights in, where we do things that she wants to do. She sets the pace and the agenda for activities.

Since she doesn’t work and therefore has no income, I give her money, or buy her anything that she requests. Even stuff she doesn’t request, that I see and think she will like.

She has had many offers for mentors, her principal was her loudest advocate and changed how things were done in the school to be more inclusive because DD felt that girls weren’t being heard in the educational space. DD has a strong sense of social justice and women’s rights and is aware of the issues faced by women, especially those that are underrepresented in STEM and other environments.

I just find it heartbreaking that she isn’t interested in working, volunteering or education. She wants to pretty much be left alone to do what she wants to do, and doesn’t like to do jobs in the house, which she says are boring.

DD is also aware of how much DH and I value education, hard work and helping others who are less fortunate but she doesn’t share all those values and as an adult, that’s fine too. I can’t , and shouldn’t, force my values on her, but I do require her to respect the space that we have worked hard for, and keep her bathroom and bedroom clean and tidy.

Unfortunately, during Covid, it was a very busy time for those in healthcare and medicine and I couldn’t take time off to homeschool her, nor did I realise how far behind she had fallen, as both DH and I were working long hours and overtime, as the health service was so overwhelmed. We both spent as much time as we could with the kids and we tried to juggle things between us. Unbeknownst to us both, her friends were pretty much doing the same as her - all nighters online, sleeping during the day. The stupid thing is, I used to check in on the kids before I would go to bed, and the lights were off and the rooms were quiet! They clearly knew my schedule as some nights I wasn’t home before 11pm and then I would be back at work at 7am. Once I knew how badly she had fallen behind and then with the refusal to want to attend school (which was wrapped up with being so far behind and not wanting to repeat years), we then got on the merry go round which the education department decided was the “process”, which was counselling, CAHMS, specialists and so forth. Which I think possibly made her worse, especially when she started coming up with symptoms for things that might be wrong with her. Some of the therapists she saw really played in to that, and more referrals to more specialists were then sent. The other thing that might have also made things worse was that I have a strong belief in medicine. My mindset is that once you have a diagnosis, things can be healed. However, other than anxiety, she hasn’t been diagnosed with anything, so we stay on the hamster wheel of her refusal to do anything without being nagged into it, because she would rather chat to friends, game online, or watch shows with shared screens so she is in her room, watching the same thing as her friends, who are all in their bedrooms! Possibly all normal for this generation of teens, and since she has 3 different friendship groups, I’m honestly not sure if this is a normal situation or if they all have the same problem, whatever that may be. The parents of her friends all appear to be laidback than DH and I, as they don’t seem to mind this crazy way that their teens are behaving, so maybe the problem is with us, and we should be more accepting of her just doing her “thing”! Although I wonder, if like DH and I, they just don’t want to verbalise to anyone how out of hand things have really got. Even my dad, who was a real hardarse when I was growing up, says that I should “relax and let her have fun”. What fun? Her room’s a mess and dirty, her clothes are just strewn all over, ditto make up, her bathroom is currently being rented by the military for swamp manoeuvres and her personal hygiene leaves much to be desired. Surely this isn’t fun? But then, the flip side is, she has no responsibility, she gets up when she likes, goes to bed when she likes, goes out regularly on jaunts with her friends, gets everything paid for and when asked to do anything in the house, says she feeling anxious and needs to lie down, which when I check on her, she’s on t(e phone with her friends, whilst watching streamers online. Which may indeed be her protective factor. Or not.

But I have anxiety because of the way her room is, the mould problem, which I keep going in there to check for, which she hates, saying that there’s no mould, but well, she didn’t really realise there was mould there before! And it really does stress me out. I don’t want my house like this. DH and I don’t even like to go out for the day, or the evening, because I find it too stressful as I don’t know if the cats will be fed, or the dishwasher loaded, or whether she will have cooked herself something and the kitchen’s a mess, or got a takeaway and left it all over the dining table, because she literally seems to be incapable of putting things in the bin, or the dishwasher, or wiping the kitchen counters, without me or her dad standing over her and telling her what to do. She will say she didn’t notice. How can you not notice that you haven’t put your dishes in the dishwasher, or your takeaway wrappers in the bin? There’s nothing to notice. It’s the mess you’ve literally just made. When we do go out, I will be phoning to remind her to do things, and DH hates it, because he says I spend more time on the phone to her, then I do talking to him. Because I get anxious about how the house will be. And then having to spend time cleaning up. So I may as well stay home.

OP posts:
junbean · 08/11/2023 04:51

AIBUmum2023 · 08/11/2023 03:45

This actually has worked in the past. I taught her how to make a lot of traditional Japanese dishes which she really liked!

This is also why I wonder about weaponised incompetence, because things that I know she can do, like making coffee for instance, she will do so diabolically, that I wonder if she's done it deliberately so that she won't be asked again! And I know she hasn't had a stroke so I don't understand where this stems from, apart from the fact that she will often say that she can't be bothered to do something, and when being told to do it, she does it really badly!

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Keep trying, mine does this too. It's taken some time and I've had to show her many times but it's getting better. My DD has been watching recipe videos on Youtube and following along. It was horrible at first because she has no concept of how to clean as you go, and the kitchen was destroyed. It was bad. But it's slowly gotten better and her cooking skills have too. I won't let her leave the room until it's actually clean. I completely understand the thought of weaponized incompetence, I wondered for years if it was intentional or truly unintentional. Just today she told me she finished the laundry for me, but I found it stacked up in a big damp pile on a shelf. It was mind boggling. She really thought the machine wringing it out meant it was dry. I even reminded her how to do it when she said she wanted to do it for me. I had to rewash it all because it got smelly. She really did think she did the right thing. I have to teach every task in tiny baby steps, very slowly one thing at a time because if a task takes more than one step and explained all at once, it gets lost in her head. This was one of the markers of ADHD per her assessment. I'm not saying my experience is your experience, just offering a possible explanation.

junbean · 08/11/2023 04:35

Honestly it does sound like she might have ADHD and/or high functioning ASD. She sounds a lot like my DD in some ways like not taking care of herself, low/no initiative, etc. Along those lines it sounds like she has low self esteem because she's not doing well in life at the moment. I know everyone on MN is so quick to diagnose and I'm not doing that, it genuinely sounds like my DD's issues. It can be so hard to diagnose young females because all the research that goes into diagnostic criteria is done on males. Females present quite differently and often it comes across as laziness. Obviously your DD has some typical teenage stuff going on too, and you're right to hold her to a standard. I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. But do try to open your mind to possibilities- it would be better to figure out her issues now rather than her suffering as adult later on. It might not be in her best interest to be too hard on her as her GP suggests, it could be making things worse. Could she see a different doctor? It might make a world of difference to take some real actual assessments while you are also providing lots of structure at home. I've been taking this approach with my DD and as she gets older she tries harder. Just getting her teeth brushed has been a long battle I thought we'd never win. I've tried everything from doing it myself to buying all kinds of fancy toothbrushes and mouthwash, etc. and only very recently has she started to show some signs of progress. A big part of it has been to find a toothpaste flavor she can tolerate. She uses children's toothpaste and mouthwash. Such a simple thing but it made a big difference. I still have to remind her to do every little thing day after day after day after day! I know how exhausting it is. She can spend an hour doing her makeup perfectly but she doesn't think to brush her teeth or wash her face. She'll spend another hour putting together a very fashionable outfit but her clothes will be very obviously dirty, and hasn't bothered to shower or put deodorant on so stinky as well. She was just recently officially diagnosed and about to start on meds so I'm really hoping it helps. Her GP has arranged for various therapies as well. And I've actually done the opposite of you and I do buy her special things to help encourage her to take care of herself better, like scented lotions, nail stuff, perfume, shimmery facial spray and other facial stuff, etc. I put extra effort in finding things she'll enjoy because she's more likely to use them. Sometimes I go in her room and all the nice things I bought are on the floor or spilled, etc. It's upsetting but I try to be gentle and remind her how to keep things organized. Sorry for the long ramble, I only hope to encourage by sharing my experience. I've lost my patience plenty and was very lost for years and only recently have started to see progress. I forgot to add that we've been using online tools for her education for a few years now and that's met her needs much better, as it's more suited to her strengths and weaknesses than traditional school. We've been using Outschool for the past year, and we're lucky to have funding for it through our state (we're in the US). Maybe there's resources for homeschooling where you live? At least your DD has friends, that's a positive. Maybe try spending some 1-on-1 time with her or take her and a friend out for lunch or go to a park. That kind of interaction will foster a better relationship. A lot of times acting out is just asking to be seen or heard. Especially with the eating disorder stuff and trying to get diagnosed, those are definitely cries for help. There's something going on that she needs you to see. I know it's doubly hard when they are teens. I actually went to a therapist myself to seek insight on teen development. I learned so much. Their brains are still undeveloped, they process things differently, and they just see reality in a much different way. You can't reason with it, you have to adjust to it. Just like the toddler years! Teens and toddlers have so much in common. Then you add mental health or neurological issues into it...my only saving grace has been seeking medical help. Hopefully you can find the resources you need. Finding her someone to be a mentor could help too. It really does take a village sometimes!