Aibu to not help Scouts…

I would be having a serious word with the leader and the GSL. Perhaps the area exec needs to be told about this so called group. What a way to discourage a volunteer and possibly jeopardise the future of the group from any potential leaders.

YANBU!

Just unbelievable! I've noticed this about parents a lot recently - many are so entitled and expect everything of volunteers, teachers etc but offer nothing, not even basic manners.

DH is ordained and hosted a school carol service rehearsal recently. The parents were asked to finish the rehearsal by a certain time because of a scheduled church service beginning immediately after. The parents were also advised to have their lunch at the church hall, not in the church itself after the rehearsal because of the service taking place after the rehearsal. They had the rehearsal right up to the very end of the allotted time, not allowing any slack for setting up for the service, and they had their lunch in the church building during the service, rustling their sandwich wrappers and crisp packets throughout!

Wow that's incredible someone would begrudge that. I would quit and tell the parents why. Sad for those who do appreciated you though

@SecretsOfSunshine I can't believe what I'm reading. Around here the scouts are very middle class & kids are waiting years for a spot. My ds in in our local one & it's full of very wealthy families. There has been complaints in the past that it's not diverse enough racially or demographically. Scouting seems to attract a certain demographic at least around here.
I havn't read the full thread but I will. Absolutely disgraceful to expect to volunteers to pay for anything. The leader who agreed to must be very wealthy to go along with it.

I've just come on to say the same thing!
I run a brownies group. People generally pay on time (or by the second ask), parents are kind respectful, help when you ask.

However, we make it clear we are volunteers, we do fun, adventurous, thoughtful things where they learn stuff. We ask parents to help once every term.

I can't believe someone complained!! My DC did Cubs and Brownies and it was the cheapest activity they did and the camps were so cheap too. And they got so many amazing experiences and the leaders worked so hard! I can't believe the leaders are against you. I would definitely leave in your situation. I think your amazing the amount of time and energy you've already given. I was so incredibly grateful to the leaders when my DC did these clubs and just can't believe someone complained and that the leaders didn't suggest they could volunteer and have a 'free holiday' to counteract the extra money money they paid for leaders!

When I was treasurer for our scout group, in our annual report I always outlined major expenses, what equipment we had purchased etc along with a little pie chart showing 1 persons subs for the year and what it was spent on eg 35% was for memberships fees that get paid to area/district/HQ etc, card processing/bank fees, supplies for meetings, equipment purchases etc. as I didn’t feel that parents were aware that we don’t see 1/3 of the subs as we have to pay fees to the higher up branches of scouts.

I'm not going to post further on this thread (because if Scouts really are paragons of clear communication then great, and it's not something my DD would enjoy anyway I don't think). And tbh the thread has been rather off-putting! I'd hate to exploit volunteers or find they'd been paying for their own food etc.

But I can assure you that a lot of extra curricular groups tend to assume parents (and helpers) know stuff rather than actually communicate it clearly.

Might be relevant that I live in London and a lot of first time parents didn't grow up here.

There absolutely are entitled parents but it's often not made clear what basis a particular group runs on or what fees actually cover.

I wonder how many scouting groups you have been involved with to be able to make this statement? As an ex-brownie leader I can tell you that in Guiding (and I assume Scouting is similar) there is information all over the website wher you initially sign up to explain that Guiding is a voluntary organisation; information when your child starts; regular newsletters. And any group that requires parent volunteering will spell this out.

Not to mention that I find it highly unlikely that any parent starts their child at a club (any club) without understanding what the expectation for participations, support and payment was. I assume the parents who are surprised that they are asked to occasionally volunteer at scouts are also those that are surprised when they are asked to take their dance children to extra rehearsals before shows. Plus, as this is Scouts, there is a high chance that the children have also been in lower sections e.g. cubs, so it's hardly a new thing for parents.

To all those who volunteer in any capacity - thank you. 💐

I haven't read the whole thread but I have volunteered for a uniformed organisation since 2005. I reluctantly ended up leading my previous group (either I took over or we closed) - I have since moved to a new area and got involved as part of an existing team.
In my previous group I made sure that uniforms for volunteers were bought by the group; I would never expect my team to pay to volunteer. In my new group I have never paid a weekly sub and I am seeing the other team members silently following my lead.

Oh, and reading through more of the thread now and seeing comments about parents being un contactable or not wanting to collect in an emergency reminds me of the time a child fell ill on camp and when we phoned mum: ‘sorry I’ve had a few drinks so I can’t pick him up, just give him some calpol and tell him to be brave’
We told her that if she was not in a fit state to drive she needed to get another family member who was to collect child and in the end his grandad came.
If my DC are away on any residential or camp, DH and I make sure at least one of us stays sober in case we need to collect, I thought that was common sense.

Beaver leader here: If our scout group told us leaders that we have to pay for our food and accommodation costs on camps and sleepovers off the back of a few parents complaining I would step down.

Like most other leaders in scouting and guiding who have commented on here, although I generally enjoy time spent with the children and young people, I have unfortunately come across a fair number of entitled and/or clueless parents over the years.

‘Yes CF parent, of course we should have to pay for our food and board despite the fact we are giving up our weekend to entertain 20 odd 6 and 7 year olds unpaid, when I could be spending that time with my own DC and sleeping in my own warm bed instead of using a roll mat and sleeping bag on the floor of a tent of church hall.’

And yes, those parents who moan the most are the ones who help the least.

We currently have a very large waiting list, with some children already old enough to join. We have set parent’s expectations, some have asked why we can’t just open a 2nd colony. When the section leader put it to these parents that the existing leaders are already maxed out with our current commitments and that maybe some of them would be interested in volunteering to be assistant leaders, guess what? No response back.

If ANYONE can't understand 'we are a volunteer organisation', the really cheap fees, the appeals for volunteers, the history of the association, the cost of paid help and hall hire costs what the hell are they then???!!! Of course they are deaf, stupid or ignorant.

This isn't rocket science. Its trumpetted loudly for all (who will listen - being willing being the phrase). You don't have to take out an advert for this. Everyone should have a basic level of understanding of How The World Works by the time they are an adult.

And YES our group make parental expectations crystal clear as the group can't function otherwise. It was brought back from the brink some years ago and they've worked hard to build a long term progression plan to ensure the long term survival of the group.

Frankly I think any group that doesn't do this is off their rocker.

Given the demand for spaces, we don't have to turn anyone away. They have to sign up to the terms from the start. It sorts out the problem without having to be a big bad meanie. We makke clear if there are mitigating circumstances (either family wise or financially) to talk to leaders. Because its relevant to safeguarding too.

Honestly, having to put up with the (rare) fail out from with CFucker parents, no I don't have time for pandering to this nonsense for the sake of 'being nice'. These are people who don't give a shit about the leaders, so why should that be returned? Its just willingful ignorance and time no one in Scouting actually has.

I'm not personally a leader, but I give up a hell of a lot of family time for scouts. I have zero patience for fuckwits as a result as thats MY time they take away from me and my family. It comes at a cost to us as a family too. DH has got permitted and has benefitted from some paid courses, but not all. DS ultimately benefits and its DH's sports but DH wouldn't do some of the training but for scouts. Then there's all the running around costs he never gets reimbursed for.

I have long since got past the point of caring if people don't like my hard attitude on this, but I'm long since run out of patience for ungrateful fuckers too.

I'd love to know if you did pull out in the end? I've always been impressed by the leaders in Guides and Brownies (my boys chose not to join the Scouts) and can't believe that they took the line they did. You give up your time, give up wages, your own children are no longer going? Who do they think they are?!

Disclaimer: I don't know about Scouts. I was generally musing on the expectations around volunteering.

Wow, @RedToothBrush, if you believe everyone who doesn't want to volunteer for your group is "thick or a CF" then I think I may be able to see the issue.

If your group spells out up front before waiting lists are joined or money changes hands that it's run by parent volunteers and gives some indication of how often and for how long the parent would be volunteering and roughly what they'd be doing, then great. Although I suppose you have to be prepared to reject children whose parents can't or won't.

My DD's been in two groups that expect parent volunteering and neither mentioned this when we signed up. They also make it rather obvious that mums are expected to volunteer but dads aren't...

I would like to make it clear that I do volunteer but groups are not always candid or well run and I'm not sure parents do always understand budgets - why would they? Quite a few activities are subsidised in some way and again this isn't always transparent.

I agree with the OP anyway - volunteering shouldn't cost the volunteer.

Our start of every term and new joiner email says we are volunteers.
I also did a parents meeting via teams and introduced us and said what we did for our real paid jobs which definitely made an impression (only 1/4 parents came though…)
Surely it’s obvious from the cost. If it’s £4 a week for 90 mins in a hired room, all badges and weekly activities/supplies then it’s not got paid staff.
We did a 12 hour weekend day trip cost them £10 for train and entry fee and badge. Leaders got their train fare paid. Girls brought money for tea out. It’s blooming depressing if you have to start spelling out leaders bought their own Starbucks coffee (needed after 6.30am train) and their own tea in Nandos.

It shouldn't really matter if it's a volunteer or an event run by someone who is paid ( say a teacher but who isn't getting paid for the 24/7 nature of running a school trip).

DPs should expect to pay for the living costs of that person during the event and say thank you to them at the end for their time. It's not much to ask.

If the DPs are struggling to pay for a scouting trip then they apply to the hardship fund.

There are no muddied waters.

There are just thick or cfer parents.

Which part of 'we are a parent led group. We rely on parent volunteers to run' is difficult to understand?

We have leaders permitted in a number of activities. They do 'exchanges' with other troops to earn favours to keep costs down. Scouts also do one camp which requires additional fees because of the equipment (owned by county scouts). District camp does have paid staff. This is part of camp site fees. But even then they are not for profit.

The point is parents DON'T want to understand. Its scouting. Its made explicitly clear. If the parents don't want to listen we can't force them.

Parents are well aware that if they book at an activity birthday party for 6 - 8kids how much it bloody costs.

Yes we’ve had same..complaint re fun end of term trip ..what badge is that towards.
I now add a disclaimer to program that says as ever we aim for a mix of fun activities and skills badge work.
It’s old adage you can’t please everyone all of the time.
Social media probably plays a part so parents see national or regional events advertised and want to know why we aren’t going to x.
We try and offer a wide mix of activities. Making contacts and arranging activities takes a huge amount of time.
One term (for girls 10-13) we had arranged a talk from young female police officer (careers/online safety), I’d run a session for international women’s day re challenging gender stereotypes, done an influence skills builder inc the girls giving 3 minute talks, persuasive letter writing. We had also done fun sessions and a weekend away and a weekend day trip.
Message from a parent PS maybe include ideas that empower young women…
It knocks wind out of you and makes you think why bother. We are very open to ideas and responded that if you want to reach out to people/have contacts/want to run a session please do then heard nothing further.

Why are the water muddied? Does it really matter if the person taking your child away for the weekend is a volunteer, or gets paid? Either way, surely it's fine that food and accommodation are covered? Either as part of your salary, or as out-of-pocket expenses as a volunteer.
Agree. If anything I think people are less likely to complain about costs if it is an activity run as a business than if it's a volunteer.
A couple of years ago I took part in a festival for the sport that I coach. There were coaches that were volunteers from a number of clubs, plus some from a commercial organisation who had been brought in as there weren't enough volunteers. We all had the same qualifications and were doing the same thing, but they were paid £200 for the day and we got dirty looks from the organisers for putting in travel expenses. Because they're professionals whereas we, as volunteers are there for the love of it.
In the same way, none of the parents at my DD's dance school would bat an eyelid that the teachers' uniforms and shoes are paid for from their lesson fees (and probably a tax deductible expense for the business I suppose) but if I asked my club to contribute to my sports shoes I would guarantee that I would need good ones in order to be able to run away from the parents chasing me whilst wielding pitchforks.

In the 70s and 80s, there were often enough leaders, and there wasn't the same rations of leaders/children that are required nowadays.

There were probably enough leaders because a much smaller proportion of mothers worked.

Daughter of Brown owl here. I know how hard everyone works so a Big Thank you to all youth group (and adult group) volunteers, whether scouts, guides, football, canoeing etc.