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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dismissal

32 replies

hugnasd · 23/10/2023 19:41

Aibu to dismiss a member of staff who has worked with us for under a year who has openly admitted she hates the role she was employed for and refuses to do tasks we ask.

I've been looking at lots of gov and HR websites and just can't make head nor tail of what I can legally do.

I am a very small business owner and this person is really disrupting the culture with their negativity and vibe and need them out.

Does anyone know if I can just have an open and honest chat with them and say 'look this is just not working out, I'll pay you for a month plus unused holidays and we'll finish it now'?

I just don't want to do anything wrong in the eyes of the law. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
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Temporaryanonymity · 23/10/2023 22:45

For future reference, lots of us are self employed freelance HR Consultants and our clients are people like you. There will be one near you.

WinterQueenie · 23/10/2023 22:39

We terminated an employee on Friday for similar reasons OP. We had a performance review at 13 weeks where we raised concerns with their performance and attitude, they were put on extended probation. The nail in their coffin was last Tuesday when the Christmas rota came out and they were very vocal on refusing to work Christmas Eve and Boxing Day. We found out on Thursday various staff had received unacceptable emails demanding that the other staff covered the very short hours that they were on rota for both days.

Your employee doesn’t like the job, they’ve made that clear, get rid of them especially if it’s impacting your team.

Hankunamatata · 23/10/2023 22:19

I'd do another review asap and say things havnt improved from last review

Worriedmum159 · 23/10/2023 22:00

jolaylasofia · 23/10/2023 21:45

i would suggest performance reviews at least every 3 months with specific goals and targets with indicated timeframes in which they need to be achieved. You also need to implement the oral, first written warning, 2nd written warning, final warning, termination process. Sacking someone out of the blue regardless of her attitude or how long she has been there is very unprofessional and really crappy behaviour from a company. Legally you can terminate her immediately but does not make it right.

OP, pls don’t listen to this. You have more than enough reason to terminate this individual. My spider sense tells me that if you thought she was mentorable in any way, you would do this instead.

You have no obligation and you are being very fair.

jolaylasofia · 23/10/2023 21:45

i would suggest performance reviews at least every 3 months with specific goals and targets with indicated timeframes in which they need to be achieved. You also need to implement the oral, first written warning, 2nd written warning, final warning, termination process. Sacking someone out of the blue regardless of her attitude or how long she has been there is very unprofessional and really crappy behaviour from a company. Legally you can terminate her immediately but does not make it right.

Treesinmygarden · 23/10/2023 20:43

It probably doesn't matter now because legally this person doesn't have a leg to stand on, but personally I'd have put them a performance improvement plan early on. Measurable objectives, training/mentoring required, regular review dates, and then I'd have applied the '3 step' process in which you clearly set out the reasons for the dismissal, the attempts made to improve the performance and any training provided, and how the failure to improve has manifested.

Would have given them a week's notice, but built an appeal in. IMO that's best practice.

Lovelynames123 · 23/10/2023 20:31

Yes get rid, I've had to do this a few times when people haven't been the right fit for our small team. Any notice pay and unused holiday should be paid, then p45

timetochangethering · 23/10/2023 20:28

Oh and I usually say I will be happy to give them a reference. But I only ever confirm working dates and job titles and keep the reason for leaving vague in this case.

timetochangethering · 23/10/2023 20:26

hugnasd · 23/10/2023 19:58

@ThelastRolo20 thank you so much. It sure how to message on here but really appreciate your and everyone's advice. Never had to do this before. We have a great team and need it to get back on track quickly.

Just keep it as simple as possible, "we don't require you any longer - I'm sorry, I will pay your X weeks notice and accrued holiday which amounts to £x on X date and you can leave today to give you a chance to look for another job" Put it in a letter and hand it to them.

Make sure the office/shop is clear of other staff so they can clear their desk/area/locker.

When we had to do this in a small office at short notice, DH called in the member of staff, and I sent everyone off into a meeting room with coffee for a "sales meeting" with another manager.

They cleared their desk (very quick as had only been with us a month) and left.

ThelastRolo20 · 23/10/2023 20:00

@hugnasd no problem, make sure you provide them a letter detailing last pay, including notice and accrued/ untaken holiday. No problem also putting in the letter that they're being dismissed for performance and conduct (attitude to work)- saves them arguing that it's for anything else. Make sure in your meeting it's not framed as a discussion/ debate - this can turn it into a hearing and can muddy the waters. Be short and sweet - to the point, wish them all the best and pass them their letter. Good luck!

hugnasd · 23/10/2023 19:58

@ThelastRolo20 thank you so much. It sure how to message on here but really appreciate your and everyone's advice. Never had to do this before. We have a great team and need it to get back on track quickly.

OP posts:
JemOfAWoman · 23/10/2023 19:57

Refer back to previous conversation(s), reiterate training that has been given and be specific about where/how she is not meeting requirements of the role and therefore based on past 12 months you don't believe this will change.
Pay contractual notice and any holidays accrued but not taken up to leave date.
Be clear in termination letter about why she is dismissed.

MyCircumference · 23/10/2023 19:56

perhaps a performance review
she fails and is gone

hugnasd · 23/10/2023 19:54

@OnceAgainWithFeeling thank you, no processes required under 2 years. Very basic contract. This is very helpful for me and hugely appreciate it.

OP posts:
towriteyoumustlive · 23/10/2023 19:54

They've been employed less than 2 years, their attitude sucks, and you're not getting rid of them for any reason that would classify as discrimination.

Just make sure you give the correct notice period which they should work. Also make sure you pay any outstanding holiday entitlement.

ThelastRolo20 · 23/10/2023 19:53

@hugnasd employees can't claim unfair or constructive dismissal under two years service (including their notice period). So the vast majority of the time it is safe to do this, however - you need to make sure you aren't breaching the contract (so they'll be due their notice pay and any accrued but untaken holiday) etc.

The only issue is if they have a protected characteristic and they have evidence that you are dismissing them for that reason (eg. Race/ age/ pregnancy status). If you can link purely to performance (that hasn't been hindered by a protected characteristic) then you should be okay. Feel free to message me if you like - I head up an HR team

Worriedmum159 · 23/10/2023 19:51

Employees only gain statutory protection against unfair dismissal after accruing two years’ continuous service with the same employer.

It may be that you do not think an individual is the right fit for your company or organisation, or there could have been various conduct or capability issues that have raised legitimate concerns.

For the employee with less than 2 years service, this may mean that their contract of employment can be lawfully terminated without further investigation or prior warning, and without the need for you to defend either your decision to dismiss or the way in which this is handled.

hundreds of resources on Google. Get rid.

Termination of Employment (How to Dismiss?) | DavidsonMorris

For termination of employment to be fair, employers have to show they have a valid reason for the dismissal and they acted reasonably in the circumstances.

https://www.davidsonmorris.com/termination-of-employment/

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 23/10/2023 19:51

HR Director. I’m going to assume the contract doesn’t mention a process being required before 2 years employment and that there is no policy confirming such.

if neither is true, you’re good to go.

SapphOhNo · 23/10/2023 19:51

Yes just get rid. Pay them the notice period and escort them off the premises.

Danikm151 · 23/10/2023 19:51

Legally if unemployed for under 2 years you can be terminated for any reason apart from a protected characteristic.
you can simply say “you’re no longer required and we’re terminating your contract”

Paddleboarder · 23/10/2023 19:50

I think you can dismiss them if they've only been working for you for a year.

JaniceBattersby · 23/10/2023 19:49

You can just sack her. Give her the requisite notice and tell her she can take it as gardening leave.

hugnasd · 23/10/2023 19:48

@user1846385927482658 I have read this but not on the gov website and wondered if this was legally true. I am hoping it is 🙏🏻

OP posts:
MyCircumference · 23/10/2023 19:48

well then you will have to have a chat and get her gone