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Original poster

Tips for a school appeal

112 replies

Hotandsunny · 21/10/2023 17:58

I'm trying to get my DD into a different school than she was offered. The appeal is coming up soon. Has anyone done one and can give me an idea of what to expect, any preparation I should do or any tips. Thanks ☺️

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Lougle · 17/11/2023 18:47

Well done, I'm pleased for you.

MaBellOnDaLoose · 17/11/2023 17:54

That is marvellous news! What a relief!

Sticktoyourguns · 17/11/2023 17:22

Hotandsunny · 17/11/2023 12:17

I just found out today - I won the appeal!! I honestly don't think I would have done without the advice on here so a massive thank you to everyone who took the time to reply! It's such a weight off my mind!

I told my DD and she got upset - obviously it being a big scary change! But she settled down quite quickly to look at pencil cases and stationery! Just need to find some money for uniform now (when I've spent most of my money on Christmas!) 😂

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Congratulations, well done!! So pleased for you and your DC.
Most schools normally have uniform sales if that’s any help. Such an expensive time of year, absolutely everything seems to have gone up!

Riverlee · 17/11/2023 13:03

Congratulations!

prh47bridge · 17/11/2023 12:44

Well done.

Original poster
Hotandsunny · 17/11/2023 12:17

Sticktoyourguns · 10/11/2023 22:27

Any news op? I’m hoping that you’ll get good news soon 🤞.

I just found out today - I won the appeal!! I honestly don't think I would have done without the advice on here so a massive thank you to everyone who took the time to reply! It's such a weight off my mind!

I told my DD and she got upset - obviously it being a big scary change! But she settled down quite quickly to look at pencil cases and stationery! Just need to find some money for uniform now (when I've spent most of my money on Christmas!) 😂

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Original poster
Hotandsunny · 17/11/2023 12:13

Lougle · 09/11/2023 09:32

I've been thinking about this and although they didn't give you the right explanation, and should have answered your question, they were justified in saying it was irrelevant (in my view).

Taking primary school appeals as an example, a parent could say:

"Fair enough, you don't have room in classroom 8 for 34 pupils, so you don't have room for an extra child in year 4, but classroom 1 has room for 36 pupils and you use it for reception, which can only legally have 30 pupils. If you put reception in classroom 8 and year 4 in classroom 1, you'd have space."

The panel can't direct a school in how to organise it's pupils. So they are right to say that what the classes are used for isn't very relevant if the year group is full.

Yes, I understand. My point was more around 6th form being able to use the smaller rooms.

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Sticktoyourguns · 10/11/2023 22:27

Any news op? I’m hoping that you’ll get good news soon 🤞.

Lougle · 09/11/2023 09:32

I've been thinking about this and although they didn't give you the right explanation, and should have answered your question, they were justified in saying it was irrelevant (in my view).

Taking primary school appeals as an example, a parent could say:

"Fair enough, you don't have room in classroom 8 for 34 pupils, so you don't have room for an extra child in year 4, but classroom 1 has room for 36 pupils and you use it for reception, which can only legally have 30 pupils. If you put reception in classroom 8 and year 4 in classroom 1, you'd have space."

The panel can't direct a school in how to organise it's pupils. So they are right to say that what the classes are used for isn't very relevant if the year group is full.

clerkhaton · 08/11/2023 09:16

The clerk should absolutely not have helped the schools submission. They may only advise on the regulations/procedure etc. If I have do this, I make it very clear I am referring to xxx policy/para xx.xx of admittance regs and minute the same. The should not be seen to be on either "side" and have no personal input or advice.

Original poster
Hotandsunny · 07/11/2023 22:00

Sticktoyourguns · 07/11/2023 21:51

Good luck! School appeals are always frustrating and it’s difficult to read which way they may go. I heard within the day, or the following day, with all of mine so I hope that you hear soon 🤞🤞.

Thank you, I hope so.

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Sticktoyourguns · 07/11/2023 21:51

Good luck! School appeals are always frustrating and it’s difficult to read which way they may go. I heard within the day, or the following day, with all of mine so I hope that you hear soon 🤞🤞.

Original poster
Hotandsunny · 07/11/2023 19:51

prh47bridge · 07/11/2023 19:06

If the appeal school refused to answer your questions to help you prepare for the appeal, that is a clear breach of the Appeals Code. The clerk shouldn't have helped the school's representative, and the appeal panel shouldn't have stopped you asking questions. If you lose and want to take it further, you can refer it to the ESFA (if the school is an academy or free school) or the LGO who may order a fresh hearing with a different appeal panel if they find that you have been disadvantaged.

The appeal school told me to ask the LA as they don't have that information and the LA told me to ask the school as they don't have that information. Then I was told I had to do a FOI request. Finally the information was found by the LA! In one of their booklets. I actually had looked in there but it was so long I didn't know where to look.

But what I actually meant is my Dd's primary school wouldn't give me any information as they said the LA doesn't allow them to. Which I made clear at the beginning of the appeal.

It was very much the school deputy, clerk and one of the panel were on the same side. And then another one said my questions were irrelevant. They sent a list of the size of all rooms and said many are smaller than the standard 60m. But that is for a class of 30 in a non-specialised classroom. So I was asking about the use of the rooms, what size groups the children are in, which rooms 6th form use etc. 6th form is undersubscribed by 100. I was told they use classrooms all over the school. So I argued corridors couldn't be too crowded if there was room for 100 more pupils. She said the 6th form is completely separate and when I queried that based on her telling they used classrooms all over the school, one of the panel said I have to accept her answers and apparently I just didn't like her answers. The clerk stepped in twice to answer questions for the school deputy as if he could see she was 'losing' so tried to help her. She'd been saying how they wanted to increase numbers in their 6th form, they were looking at ways to attract more students, she could get another 10 in her classroom etc. But changed her tune once the clerk had said the set capacity of the school was too generous. She didn't seem to think so before!

Thanks for the information.

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prh47bridge · 07/11/2023 19:06

If the appeal school refused to answer your questions to help you prepare for the appeal, that is a clear breach of the Appeals Code. The clerk shouldn't have helped the school's representative, and the appeal panel shouldn't have stopped you asking questions. If you lose and want to take it further, you can refer it to the ESFA (if the school is an academy or free school) or the LGO who may order a fresh hearing with a different appeal panel if they find that you have been disadvantaged.

Original poster
Hotandsunny · 07/11/2023 16:16

I had my appeal today. The school refused to give me any information and her therapist had a family emergency so also couldn't. But I made that clear to the panel.

It started with the usual problems with technology so was half an hour over before it started. Then halfway through they couldn't hear me and I had to swap from my laptop to my phone.

The school's part was very frustrating. The teacher didn't answer my questions but just kept repeating year 7 is full. She also would contradict herself. Especially when the clerk would help her out and suggest something to support her case that she would then agree with which contradicted what she had already said. Part of the school's argument was that their rooms were small and they had sent a list of all the rooms and their sizes. I tried to question what the rooms were used for as it makes a difference as to how many pupils could fit in the rooms and for example if it would be 6th form the classes are smaller etc. The panel ganged up on me to tell me that was irrelevant. Why send the list if it couldn't be questioned or clarified? So I think they all hated me at that point and I was getting very frustrated.

The second part which was my case went much better. I read out my statement. And then they asked me questions which I answered easily.

No idea if I've got a chance but I did my best. I will be told the outcome within 5 working days. No idea what we will do if the appeal fails. I'm having to home educate her and I'm not coping.

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LolaSmiles · 22/10/2023 18:56

If they won't give you a copy, you could SAR it to get the information depending on what your time frames are. I know from some parenting groups that some people have found that a useful way of getting information regarding their child.

Original poster
Hotandsunny · 22/10/2023 18:30

Lougle · 22/10/2023 18:06

School may not be able to directly support you with the appeal, but they must have an SEN plan that details your DD's additional needs? You should be entitled to a copy.

Oh, right, I'll speak to them.

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Original poster
Hotandsunny · 22/10/2023 18:28

MaBellOnDaLoose · 22/10/2023 17:58

Hello, my experience of a school appeal was that it went on for hours and hours.

Part one was listening to the school representative advising why they couldn't take more children (with other parents there, then some were seen individually on the same day, others had different dates with a morning slot or an afternoon slot, no actual times given).

For our individual slot, we had to attend on a separate date in the afternoon. Got there for 12, but weren't seen until 5. If there are lots of other people also appealing, be prepared for a long wait, make sure you have childcare and take something to occupy yourself, food and drink.

Good luck.

Oh my goodness! My appeal is over Zoom and I have a time but it says it might not be at that actual time. I can't believe yours was 5 hours late!

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Lougle · 22/10/2023 18:06

School may not be able to directly support you with the appeal, but they must have an SEN plan that details your DD's additional needs? You should be entitled to a copy.

MaBellOnDaLoose · 22/10/2023 17:58

Hello, my experience of a school appeal was that it went on for hours and hours.

Part one was listening to the school representative advising why they couldn't take more children (with other parents there, then some were seen individually on the same day, others had different dates with a morning slot or an afternoon slot, no actual times given).

For our individual slot, we had to attend on a separate date in the afternoon. Got there for 12, but weren't seen until 5. If there are lots of other people also appealing, be prepared for a long wait, make sure you have childcare and take something to occupy yourself, food and drink.

Good luck.

Original poster
Hotandsunny · 22/10/2023 17:44

DragonFly98 · 22/10/2023 17:34

That's great that you have the letter. I sympathise I do think there should be a specific part of the form for disability/ill health.

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It's so difficult. I don't have a support worker (probably won't get one again as the position isn't being filled again) or a care coordinator (waiting for re-allocation) and our case was closed with children's services, although the ex-social worker did write me a supporting letter. I was referred to adult social care when the children's services closed our case but I'm still waiting for assessment. And school aren't allowed to help!

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Original poster
Hotandsunny · 22/10/2023 17:38

AfterWeights · 22/10/2023 17:21

You mention your DD sitting the 11+. Is the school a grammar school, and if so, did she get a high enough mark to get in?

No, it's not a grammar school, but they do take a handful of pupils who passed the 11+

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DragonFly98 · 22/10/2023 17:34

Hotandsunny · 22/10/2023 17:03

Oh, I didn't know that. I really struggled with the admission process.

I do have a supporting letter from the pastor.

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That's great that you have the letter. I sympathise I do think there should be a specific part of the form for disability/ill health.

AfterWeights · 22/10/2023 17:21

You mention your DD sitting the 11+. Is the school a grammar school, and if so, did she get a high enough mark to get in?

Original poster
Hotandsunny · 22/10/2023 17:07

Raera · 22/10/2023 16:55

As you mention your own mental health issues, can you provide any evidence of this as well? You don't need to provide private information, maybe an appointment letter for a MH clinic or if you take medication, a copy of your prescription, that sort of thing.
The extra evidence needs to be sent to the admissions department, not the school as they will be sending the information to the panel in advance of the hearing.

Yes, I have evidence to support that I have a serious mental illness. I will get that sent over, thank you.

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