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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

which languages to learn and why?

137 replies

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 06:59

AIBU to say everybody should be able to speak a few words of Mandarin and Hindi? AS these are two of the 3 most spoken languages in the world.

I want to learn another language now, partly for fun, but also for possibly travel and career opportunities. Should it be one of these? Or is there another language you would recommend, and why?

I am expecting people to say no to everyone learning a bit of Mandarin and Hindi, but I am interested in why we don't as it seems logical that we should

OP posts:
Squeezita · 21/10/2023 18:19

I do speak Urdu/Hindi fluently, but I don’t understand how a few words would help unless you’re going there on holiday.

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 18:10

@KingsleyBorder That is really interesting, thank you

OP posts:
KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 18:09

KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 17:54

Ha ha, good point. Brazilian lyric writers are way more poetic than most Western pop writers though!

Sorry don’t know why I said “Western” there, Brazil is in the West and I didn’t mean Country & Western 🤦‍♀️. I guess I just meant English language !

Validus · 21/10/2023 18:01

I’d love to learn Arabic. But that would be for personal interest.

I’ve tried mandarin but I just can’t do tonal languages. I don’t think it’s going to be all that useful for the future anyway, unless you want to be a spy and can pass for a native.

languages are useful if you want to access the country, literature or culture. If you don’t want to do any of that, they’re not that helpful.

KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 17:54

Normalsizedsalad · 21/10/2023 17:51

opens up so much fabulous music

I am forever disappointed that I learned English because I understand lyrics and it ruins many, many, many songs for me😂
Fondly remember the time of blissful ignorance about what many good songs were about😂

Ha ha, good point. Brazilian lyric writers are way more poetic than most Western pop writers though!

Normalsizedsalad · 21/10/2023 17:51

opens up so much fabulous music

I am forever disappointed that I learned English because I understand lyrics and it ruins many, many, many songs for me😂
Fondly remember the time of blissful ignorance about what many good songs were about😂

KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 17:46

I have quite a good perspective on this one I think. I was naturally good at languages at school and ended up doing a degree that combined French and Spanish with law. I am “domestic fluent” in French having been an au pair and in both languages I can speak, read and listen at business level, but would not be able to draft a business communication to the requisite standard. Once I had Spanish under my belt I took Portuguese classes as it is a fairly straightforward add-on to Spanish and French. I then spent some time working in Brazil (I was sent there by my firm because I had reasonable Portuguese, though the actual work was all in English) and I have continued to work regularly with Brazilians throughout my career.
Later I spent a decade working in Asia. I lived in Hong Kong and travelled regularly to mainland China. I was surprised to find it almost impossible to pick up conversational Cantonese just by going about daily life as, with it being a tonal language and an unfamiliar script, it was impossible for me to distinguish individual words, and any attempts to speak were so incomprehensible to the locals that it was much easier for them to speak English to me, or use a translation app. Mandarin is marginally easier than Cantonese to learn (fewer tones) and I did make some progress after a few lessons but it was painfully slow compared to my experience of Romance languages (I was doing it more for fun/curiosity though, so no real pressure to learn). I am back in the UK now and there are three kids in my son’s class with Chinese Mums, but I could not come close to chatting to them in Mandarin. I noticed on a few trips to Japan that Japanese felt more accessible as it is not tonal in the same way.

I work with a lot of Indians now as I have some involvement in software development. They all work in English, and I know that they do not all share Hindi as a language anyway (Hindi, Malayalam, Tamil, Gujurati, Bengali, all very different languages).

In my view, language skills in international business, office type work are not that useful. For every British person who is an adult learner of Mandarin/Arabic/Spanish there will be 10 people who grew up bilingual in English and one of those languages and who have additional professional skills to offer. They have the benefit of not just linguistic understanding but innate cultural understanding and they are much more likely to understand the psychology, and gain the trust, of native speakers than a British learner. Plus AI translation tools are now extremely sophisticated; we are basically at the Babelfish stage now (Douglas Adams reference there!)

The other thing is that even though I speak business French, Spanish and Portuguese, I rarely use it because it is rarely just me and the speakers of one of those languages in the room/on the call/on the email chain- there will be someone else who speaks English only, or who speaks German or something plus English, and all the work is done in English anyway. At most, it helps when they can forward me an email chain with some Portuguese in it, or point me to a website in French only without having to summarise what it says as I can read it myself (though Google translate also works for that, pretty well). It does also give me novelty value and help me form good relationships if I can do a bit of chit chat in their language at the start of a meeting but that would be rude as soon as a monolingual English speaker joined the call.

Langauges are useful for work if you need to go and live in a foreign country to work, so that you can live your daily life comfortably, outside the office. At work itself, not so much unless you are bilingual.

The type of work where I think languages could be very helpful might be in the UK doing something like working with refugees or disadvantaged people from immigrant communities, people who cannot speak English but need support navigating the UK benefits or legal system, finding jobs, getting medical treatment etc. eg I could imagine that if I were a doctor it would be great to be able to take a medical history and explain a diagnosis to a Brazilian migrant worker without needing an interpreter. People whose limited English might fail them when they are scared or upset. But you don’t have those interactions in international business. And for that reason I agree that a bit of Mandarin or Hindi(or Polish or Ukrainian) might come in handy for say a social worker, but you’d need more than a smattering to make it helpful. And, again, there will be natives if those communities working in public service.

Therefore I’d counsel you against learning anything on the basis that you think it will have a real benefit for work unless you have a clear future opportunity already in your sights. But if you do want to learn something I would suggest Portuguese, specifically Brazilian Portuguese, which is much easier to understand than that spoken in Portugal. It sounds beautiful, opens up so much fabulous music, it’s a huge growing economy and has a massive diaspora.I hear Brazilians on pretty much every tube journey I take in London. It’s also a fascinating place to visit and if you go there, English is not all that widely spoken outside the business/tourist world so it is very helpful, and you can make a HUGE positive impression when they realise you speak it, as so few people ever do.

Sorte!

PatienceOfEngels · 21/10/2023 17:39

I think you need to find your own motivation for learning a language - career prospects, family connections, holidays, or personal interest.

I speak Dutch because I've lived here for 15+ years (couldn't speak a word when I got here, did 3-4 years of evening classes once a week).
Learning Spanish on Duolingo because my BIL and new niece is Spanish (had a year in high school, then some lessons on a trip to S.America). I also have some Spanish colleagues I can practice with. Would write like to pick up an evening class as I like having face to face contact.
My husband's learning Italian because his company does a lot of business with Italian suppliers (being a Dutchie he also speaks German, basic French and Spanish and picks up smatterings of languages wherever he goes so has a few words of Vietnamese, Indonesian, Arabic, Vietnamese, Hebrew).

The mentality towards language learning in my corner of the EU is so different to the UK. It's regarded as part of a well-rounded education. Students at my local Dutch secondary learn English, German, French, Spanish with options in Chinese and Latin/Ancient Greek. Having said that, it doesn't mean everyone is fluent, even in English many people don't speak it or lack confidence. People of older generations are more likely to speak German than English, especially if close to the border (my PIL don't speak English). Foreign language TV is widespread with Dutch subtitles instead of dubbing (growing up in the UK it was really rare to hear foreign languages on TV/news as either it was dubbed or the world leader said a few words in English!)

m00rfarm · 21/10/2023 16:59

The top ten languages of native speakers (ignore the title of the URL as this is not accurate) https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/the-10-most-spoken-languages-in-the-world - Portuguese is 7th. I bet you rarely hear Portuguese. I live in Portugal, and until I moved here had never really heard it before. However, most of these countries have English as their second language. The ones that don't, are the ones it is worth learning. Here is the list of most spoken languages. https://www.berlitz.com/blog/most-spoken-languages-world

20 Most Spoken Languages in the World in 2023 | Berlitz

More than half of the world's population speaks only 23 out of 7000 existing languages. Keen to know which are the most spoken languages ​​in the world?

https://www.berlitz.com/blog/most-spoken-languages-world

Zonder · 21/10/2023 16:58

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 15:06

o thankyou for all your suggestions, I already have French and BSL. I am wavering between Dutch and Arabic now, after reading all this - Dutch because it might help my chances of getting into the renewable energy industry, and Arabic because it seems to be quite widely spoken, and someone on here mentioned it being relatively easy....

My experience of Arabic was that it is really interesting but not easy. Mainly because of the alphabet. I couldn't find anywhere to learn it by conversation so there was no option but learn to read and write it too. I made much slower progress than in any other language I've tried.

Zonder · 21/10/2023 16:55

sausagepastapot · 21/10/2023 15:54

Not true at all, and there are plenty of places and ways to practice BSL. Great career prospects too if that's what you're into. Otherwise it's a brilliant way to be able to chat to Deaf BSL users! (There are plenty I can assure you!)

It must depend on where you are then. My cousin is a teacher of the deaf and also works with some deaf adults. Very few of them use any BSL as most have either cochlear implants or good hearing aids. So in our county the number of BSL users is very small and you can't even find anywhere to learn it beyond level 1.

Diegofrompennyburn · 21/10/2023 16:55

Duolingo Spanish here! Easy to do each morning, and I’ve been able to make myself understood on fairly frequent visits to Spain.

I lived in a French speaking country for a while, and also go to weekly conversation class just to keep that alive.

I learned the “hello, goodbye, please, thank you” in mandarin when I visited China for the 2009 eclipse, but I don’t know that I’d be interested in learning any more.

wombat1a · 21/10/2023 16:54

I would avoid Mandarin, I speak some and it is a language that you really need to immerse yourself in to learn. Lessons are not enough, although I am sure someone will pop up to day they a fluent in it after just having lessons. I personally don't know anyone fluent in it unless they did classes every day for a year (or more) or they did weekly classes but lived with other Mandarin speakers during the week to learn/practice.

I would suggest Spanish as to my mind if you can speak English and Spanish you can speak to a good percentage of the world population.

cariadlet · 21/10/2023 16:46

I'm learning Spanish at the moment.

I'd say the complexity levels for grammar in English and Spanish are very similar but English has a far more complex spelling system.

I went on a phonics course once where the course leader compared the number of ways sounds can be represented and the number of sounds which can be represented by different graphemes (letter or group of letters) in the 2 languages. English is more complex by an order of magnitude.

For example, the sound igh can be represented by the graphemes igh, ie, y and i (and probably by others that I can't think of off the top of my head).

The grapheme ough represents different sounds in though, tough, plough, thorough and bought.

That's one aspect which makes Spanish one of the more straightforward languages to learn.

gotomomo · 21/10/2023 16:43

Hindi isn't really that useful because there's so many languages in India and English is widely spoken - in fact those who speak Hindi which more commonly their second language are also likely to be English speakers.

There are many languages in China too.

The most useful language for most British people to learn would be Spanish as it's very widely spoken as a first language and it is spoken in countries we are more likely to visit. I personally speak French well, German ok plus a little Spanish and Italian. This makes pan European travel fairly easy

Meredusoleil · 21/10/2023 16:33

MrsMoastyToasty · 21/10/2023 07:26

I would suggest Spanish. It's widely spoken outside Spain and is easy to learn (no silent letters, unlike English).

Except the 'h' !

JaneyGee · 21/10/2023 16:18

Languages are a bit of hobby. Actually, I'm a frustrated classicist (I wish I'd done an A-Level in Latin and then done a degree in classics). I can just about read a book in French, and have basic Italian and German. Greek is the language I really want to learn, but I'm also dabbling in Russian and Japanese.

I'm reading a book on Tolkien atm. It's fascinating. He could read 20 languages, including flippin Gothic ffs! His first love, however, was the literature of Anglo-Saxon England and Viking Europe. He could read the Icelandic sagas in Old Norse and translated Beowulf himself. In fact, the main reason he wrote Lord of the Rings was so he could invent his own Elvish language.

Faydi · 21/10/2023 16:14

@Papyrophile (good name :-) agree that Latin is really useful. And much undervalued these days.

Faydi · 21/10/2023 16:12

Dutch and German are so close that I (German A level, native English speaker) understand (a fair bit of) Dutch, without ever having been taught it. So, for English speakers, learn one and you have the other. But German is more widely spoken, so that’s why I’d recommend German.

Ive tried hard to learn Arabic, but it was very hard, and I didn’t get along with it. But that was about 20 years ago, at evening class. Maybe now in the era of DuoLingo etc it would be easier.

sausagepastapot · 21/10/2023 15:54

Zonder · 21/10/2023 10:09

Very few deaf people use BSL so it isn't that easy to practise with someone proficient.

Not true at all, and there are plenty of places and ways to practice BSL. Great career prospects too if that's what you're into. Otherwise it's a brilliant way to be able to chat to Deaf BSL users! (There are plenty I can assure you!)

Ducksinthebath · 21/10/2023 15:35

StamppotAndGravy · 21/10/2023 09:14

@Ducksinthebath sustainable energy, niche bits of financing, everything argitech, quite a few bits of normal tech, high level engineering, everything with computer chips, machines that make croissant, everything with water managing, beer...

Can you tell I'm a Dutch engineer? Grin

Ah, very interesting @StamppotAndGravy thank you for satisfying my curiosity.

P.S. I love stamppot - great username!

Papyrophile · 21/10/2023 15:14

English mother tongue, studied French to A level, Latin and German to O level, and finding the acquisition of rudimentary Spanish quite straightforward, using a free TikTok app called Language Transfer. From this, I shall probably tackle a bit of Portuguese because I like the country and its people and feel awkward having to depend on everyone speaking some English. The Latin O level is probably the most useful element in all of this because so many European languages have Latin roots, which makes the written languages relatively easy to guess at, if not terribly accurately.

Normalsizedsalad · 21/10/2023 15:12

Well Arabic is top 5 most difficult languages+ has lots of variants as pps said

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 15:06

o thankyou for all your suggestions, I already have French and BSL. I am wavering between Dutch and Arabic now, after reading all this - Dutch because it might help my chances of getting into the renewable energy industry, and Arabic because it seems to be quite widely spoken, and someone on here mentioned it being relatively easy....

OP posts:
BIWI · 21/10/2023 15:05

girlfriend44 · 21/10/2023 14:45

Everyone speaks English everywhere you go anyway.

That's such a narrow-minded thing to say.

... and also not true.

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