Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why is it always men?

207 replies

bobcat2424 · 17/10/2023 12:37

I think IABU, I hope so but it seems as though every single news story, every horrible brutality; wars, murders, rape, abuse... in the very large part of it seems to be caused by men. Am I wrong to think this?

OP posts:
LadyTrunchbull · 17/10/2023 23:09

In 2000, John Archer conducted a meta-analysis of eighty-two IPV studies. He found that "women were slightly more likely than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[58] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.[59]

Something seems to be going on with the government figures. When you have eighty two DV studies contradicting them it's hard to ignore this. I don't know if it's because men don't report as much but something just doesn't add up, that's for sure!

LadyTrunchbull · 17/10/2023 23:03

Found the thread....these are the studies I mentioned. Defo paint a very different picture to the usual anecdata. I was a bit shocked tbf but you can't ignore the scale of some of them - I think one is still the biggest DV study ever conducted.

The theory that women perpetrate intimate partner violence at roughly similar rates as men has been termed "gender symmetry". The earliest empirical evidence of gender symmetry was presented in the 1975 U.S. National Family Violence Survey carried out by Murray A. Straus and Richard J. Gelles on a nationally representative sample of 2,146 "intact families". The survey found 11.6% of women and 12% of men had experienced some kind of intimate partner violence in the last twelve months, also 4.6% of men and 3.8% of women had experienced "severe" intimate partner violence.

Since 1975, numerous other empirical studies have found evidence of gender symmetry in intimate partner violence. For example, in the United States, the National Comorbidity Study of 1990-1992 found 18.4% of men and 17.4% of women had experienced minor intimate partner violence, and 5.5% of men and 6.5% of women had experienced severe intimate partner violence.[48][49]

In England and Wales, the 1995 "Home Office Research Study 191" found that in the twelve months prior to the survey, 4.2% of both men and woman between the ages of 16 and 59 had been assaulted by an intimate.[50]

The Canadian General Social Survey of 2000 found that from 1994 to 1999, 4% of men and 4% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 22% of men and 28% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 7% of men and 8% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[35]

The 2005 Canadian General Social Survey, looking at the years 1999–2004 found similar data; 4% of men and 3% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 16% of men and 21% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 6% of men and 7% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[36]

The 1975 National Family Violence Survey found that 27.7% of intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by men alone, 22.7% by women alone and 49.5% were bidirectional. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, resulting in almost identical data.[52]

The 1985 National Family Violence Survey found 25.9% of IPV cases perpetrated by men alone, 25.5% by women alone, and 48.6% were bidirectional.[53]

A study conducted in 2007 by Daniel J. Whitaker, Tadesse Haileyesus, Monica Swahn, and Linda S. Saltzman, of 11,370 heterosexual U.S. adults aged 18 to 28 found that 24% of all relationships had some violence. Of those relationships, 49.7% of them had reciprocal violence. In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence.

In 1997, Philip W. Cook conducted a study of 55,000 members of the United States Armed Forces, finding bidirectionality in 60-64% of intimate partner violence cases, as reported by both men and women.[55]

The 2001 National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health found that 49.7% of intimate partner violence cases were reciprocal and 50.3% were non-reciprocal. When data provided by men only was analyzed, 46.9% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 53.1% as non-reciprocal. When data provided by women only was analyzed, 51.3% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 49.7% as non-reciprocal. The overall data showed 70.7% of non-reciprocal intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by women only (74.9% when reported by men; 67.7% when reported by women) and 29.3% were perpetrated by men only (25.1% when reported by men; 32.3% when reported by women).[56]

The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of ipv is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only. For severe assault, a rate of 10.8% was found, of which 54.8% was bidirectional, 15.7% perpetrated by men only, and 29.4% by women only.[57]

In 2000, John Archer conducted a meta-analysis of eighty-two IPV studies. He found that "women were slightly more likely than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[58] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.[59]

From 2010 to 2012, scholars of domestic violence from the U.S., Canada and the U.K. assembled The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge, a research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind. Among its findings:[63]"

  • More women (23%) than men (19.3%) have been assaulted at least once in their lifetime.
  • Rates of female-perpetrated violence are higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%).
  • Male and female IPV are perpetrated from similar motives.
  • Studies comparing men and women in the power/control motive have mixed results overall.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#:~:text=The%20theory%20that%20women%20perpetrate,Straus%20and%20Richard%20J.

Domestic violence against men - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#:~:text=The%20theory%20that%20women%20perpetrate,Straus%20and%20Richard%20J.

Chickenkeev · 17/10/2023 23:02

I'm agog at the amount of (i assume women) posting sh*t defending men here. Like, seriously, wtaf? We know there are some women who kill. We know there are some women who perpetrate DV. But the figures speak for themselves. They are not to be argued with. It's insane to try and argue otherwise like!?!

StarDolphins · 17/10/2023 22:56

Catza · 17/10/2023 13:33

Is it though?
Peer reviewed research shows that incidents of domestic violence are almost equally split between rates of male and female perpetrators (actually slightly higher incidents of female-perpetrated abuse)
There are more males in the criminal justice system than females but this doesn't mean men commit more or fewer crimes, just that they may be more frequently charged and persecuted.
Here is a link to meta-analysis reporting that over 11% of sexual offences are perpetrated by women The Proportion of Sexual Offenders Who Are Female Is Higher Than Thought: A Meta-Analysis - Franca Cortoni, Kelly M. Babchishin, Clémence Rat, 2017 (sagepub.com)
A question of who starts wars is a question of who is typically in power. If fewer women are holding positions of power, then it would be expected that statistics of war crime and genocide are skewed to look like it is "mostly men" who are perpetrators.
It's neither "always men" nor "always women" but I think we highly underestimate the role women play in perpetrating crime.

11%? Wow. Very nearly mostly women then🙄

Sayitaintso33 · 17/10/2023 22:52

Fionaville · 17/10/2023 22:05

I'm definitely no fan of the female PMs we've had. They are all products of a male dominated political world though. We're obviously only the most rancid of females can get through to the very top. That's my take on it.

The men are also products of a male dominated world so only the rancid men can make it to the top.

LadyTrunchbull · 17/10/2023 22:52

Catza · 17/10/2023 13:01

It's not always men. There a re a lot of domestic abuse cases where the perpetrator is a woman. Men are typically reluctant to come forward in these situations which skews the stats.
Plenty of female murderers as well - see recent news story about Lucy Letby, for example. Beverly Allit, Aileen Wournos, Juana Barraza...
Plenty of terror acts in which women were active participants as well as women being perpetrators of sexual assault.
The news don't always show the full picture. If you can get a hold of official crime statistics, you may find that it is not quite so clear cut.

I would've probs disagreed with you until the recent thread where a poster linked loads of studies showing that the difference between the sexes in perpetrating DV is minimal. Women were more likely to be injured (I'm guessing due to men's vastly greater physical strength) but they perpetrated just as often and were responsible for the majority of one sided DV.

However, crime stats always seem to show a very different picture, which would support the theory of men not reporting DV (which is mentioned a lot by the charity Mankind).

If you survey hundreds of thousands of people the results always seem to show women offending at similar levels to men. And, surprisingly, recent studies show that women are more likely to admit to being perpetrators of DV than men are to admit that they're victims, which defo seems to support the theory of men being reluctant to report.

thepetrellies · 17/10/2023 22:51

Research suggests that a least a sizable minority of women are also capable of violence. For example, in female same-sex relationships (so no men in the equation), there can be quite high rates of intimate partner violence. Not that this lets men off the hook of course.

Lesbian Intimate Partner Violence: Prevalence and Dynamics: Journal of Lesbian Studies: Vol 6, No 1 (tandfonline.com)

Intimate-Partner-Violence-in-Self-identified-Lesbians-a-Meta-analysis-of-its-Prevalence.pdf (researchgate.net)

Gingernaut · 17/10/2023 22:41

Catza · 17/10/2023 13:01

It's not always men. There a re a lot of domestic abuse cases where the perpetrator is a woman. Men are typically reluctant to come forward in these situations which skews the stats.
Plenty of female murderers as well - see recent news story about Lucy Letby, for example. Beverly Allit, Aileen Wournos, Juana Barraza...
Plenty of terror acts in which women were active participants as well as women being perpetrators of sexual assault.
The news don't always show the full picture. If you can get a hold of official crime statistics, you may find that it is not quite so clear cut.

It's nearly always men, then

There are not 'plenty' of female murderers, 93% of all convicted murderers are men

Panaa · 17/10/2023 22:31

Catza · 17/10/2023 13:01

It's not always men. There a re a lot of domestic abuse cases where the perpetrator is a woman. Men are typically reluctant to come forward in these situations which skews the stats.
Plenty of female murderers as well - see recent news story about Lucy Letby, for example. Beverly Allit, Aileen Wournos, Juana Barraza...
Plenty of terror acts in which women were active participants as well as women being perpetrators of sexual assault.
The news don't always show the full picture. If you can get a hold of official crime statistics, you may find that it is not quite so clear cut.

Women are typically reluctant to come forward also so I don't think the stats are skewed at all.

Chickenkeev · 17/10/2023 22:28

PlipPlopChoo · 17/10/2023 22:20

So you missed the recent newstory about a nurse then?

Ffs, really? REALLY! When OP says 'always men', it's clear she means overwhelmingly men. I assume you're trying (and failing) to be funny or something?

Circumferences · 17/10/2023 22:23

PlipPlopChoo · 17/10/2023 22:20

So you missed the recent newstory about a nurse then?

So you missed how women are responsible for less than 7% of all murders then?

CurlewKate · 17/10/2023 22:23

Both Thatcher and May were intended to be stop gap prime ministers - to take the flack until the situation calmed down and they would be replaced by another, male, candidate. Thatcher refused to play the Kingmakers' games. May tried not to but she wasn't clever, or Machiavellian, enough. Truss? Fuck knows. Collective insanity?

DiaryOfaTTCer · 17/10/2023 22:20

OP I think about this all the time

Murderers
Rapists
Paedophiles
Dictators
Serial killers
War lords
Knife crime
Terrorists
Human trafficking

They're nearly ALWAYS men.

And when it happens to be a woman it usually makes the news because it's so out of the norm

The older I get the more fearful I am of men in general

PlipPlopChoo · 17/10/2023 22:20

So you missed the recent newstory about a nurse then?

CuriousGeorge80 · 17/10/2023 22:19

Not all men. But usually men, and far too often.
Not always women and children who are their victims: but usually, and far too often.
War, terror, domestic abuse, rape, sexual assault, child abuse.

toonnoot · 17/10/2023 22:18

I was just saying this to DH. Can't help but feel if all the aggressive men in the world vanished, society would be much better for it. I can't imagine many women knowingly committing acts of war that kill children, men in charge however don't think twice.

HRTQueen · 17/10/2023 22:17

Far far more men than women are violent

far far more men created destruction and suffering

far far more men want to control and creat tensions and start wars

far far more men make decisions that lead to financial suffering because of their own greed

far far more men have the power to make changes to make more peoples lives more comfortable but choose not to

that a small percentage are women who create such harm does not take away the FACT that men cause far far more suffering

and ffs just for once look to the wrongs of so much male violent behaviour

GilChesterton13 · 17/10/2023 22:12

Lucy letby

Harold Shipman

Morewineplease10 · 17/10/2023 22:10

Of course yanbu.

It is always almost men.

Redlarge · 17/10/2023 22:10

Sayitaintso33 · 17/10/2023 14:22

Women cause most of the aggravation in my family. That's not as bad as violence or sexual violence, but it is still aggravating.

Being aggrivated vs being at risk of death or rape. Mmmmm its a fine line isnt it.

TheaBrandt · 17/10/2023 22:09

The women are basically the exceptions that prove the rule.

Redlarge · 17/10/2023 22:09

Circumferences · 17/10/2023 14:08

There a re a lot of domestic abuse cases where the perpetrator is a woman.

A lot 😂
I think you mean "a few".

Minimal in comparison and often 'reactive' to a life of torture and hell.

Chickenkeev · 17/10/2023 22:08

GilChesterton13 · 17/10/2023 22:06

Forgive my ignorance here, and sorry if i'm wrong, but did Thatcher not start the Falklands?

Think it depends who you ask regarding 'starting' it - Argentina's invasion was the inciting incident, but Thatcher was an extremely belligerent war leader (which some give her great credit for).

Thanks! Will have to educate myself!

Redlarge · 17/10/2023 22:08

Catza · 17/10/2023 13:01

It's not always men. There a re a lot of domestic abuse cases where the perpetrator is a woman. Men are typically reluctant to come forward in these situations which skews the stats.
Plenty of female murderers as well - see recent news story about Lucy Letby, for example. Beverly Allit, Aileen Wournos, Juana Barraza...
Plenty of terror acts in which women were active participants as well as women being perpetrators of sexual assault.
The news don't always show the full picture. If you can get a hold of official crime statistics, you may find that it is not quite so clear cut.

Its just always nearly always men. It just is. Always has been, always will.

Sheselectric22 · 17/10/2023 22:06

To the posters going on about lots domestic abuse being perpetrated by women. Sorry can't remember who said it think it was a couple of posters. As a specialist in domestic abuse who has not only done the job for a long time but has been involved in some of the world leading research and development of services and policies, your incorrect. Yes.. some women do abuse men in a relationship but it's very very rare. More likely it's situational couple violence which is a newish concept and not fully understood, often it's reactionary, often it's a consequence of other factors such a substance misuse. Domestic abuse is totally different to couples conflict and this is misunderstood. Out and out domestic abuse where the goal is power and control is almost always carried out by men. Violence within relationships is almost always perpetrated by men. It's vanishingly rare to come across a woman who violent to their partner in isolation. I'm not condoning any violence or victim blaming but it's not true to say lots of women are domestically abusive.