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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this neglect?

263 replies

Thanksforreading · 29/09/2023 18:19

So DD has been attending this nursery for well over a year and we have never had a problem till last night. She is 2 years old.

I picked her up from nursery as usual (Thursday 5.45pm), and run her bath, take off her clothes and get her to sit on her potty. Before she sits on her potty she touches her thigh and says “ouchie” and “help me” so I have a look and I notice a red mark on her inner thigh! (Photo one) I was a bit shocked, but told her it was okay, and decided not to give her a bath but just a quick shower down instead. She then tells me “itchy” she’s got very limited words, so when she tells me itchy I was a bit confused as well, still not too sure what to make of it but I dress her and email nursery about my concerns. (6.30pm)
Husband gets back, and he looks, sends over a very strong email to nursery. By 7.30pm her mark is looking 100% like a burn mark from friction and it’s weeping hard, we just clean it a bit and pop aloe Vera on it, DD is super upset with lots tears and telling us “pain”
We have woken up to (photo 2) this morning to darken area of the weeping area. Nursery has replied this morning with an email saying they will investigate and give them day to get back to us.
No courtesy call nothing not even an apology or sorry to hear that this has happened, just they will investigate. Nursery closes at 6 pm.
I’ve managed to book our DD in with the doctors and they have confirmed with a written document, confirming it is a friction burn. I’ve given them till 530Pm and have tried calling them three times and no one has picked up and the voice message box is also full. I feel like my daughter has been at the hands of neglect now, and it is now a Friday evening, so this will be left till Monday morning at least. Am I being unreasonable or am I just asking for too much? This is a private nursery and we pay £94 a day for childcare.

OP posts:
iamwhatiam23 · 29/09/2023 23:46

It looks like impetigo to me! Its in an unusual place for impetigo though!

SmileyClare · 29/09/2023 23:38

RandomButtons · 29/09/2023 23:30

The GP would have picked that up if it was.

Doctors aren’t always on the ball. I expect a friction burn was diagnosed as ‘most likely “ with a caveat to come back if it worsens or doesn’t clear within a few days.

Impetigo is confirmed by testing a sample of pus under lab conditions or by noting that a sore isn’t healing as expected.(a wait and see approach)

Granted, a bacterial infection such as impetigo isn’t the most obvious cause.

Its highly contagious so there would likely be more than one child (or staff) with a case…. And the nursery would inform all parents.

SmileyClare · 29/09/2023 23:32

Thanksforreading · 29/09/2023 23:12

@SmileyClare thanks for that! I’m pretty calm, was completely flustered and panic mode yesterday. Yes, we are based in London and most nurseries have a six months to a year waiting time.

I pray they call for Monday, it’s very frustrating when there is a lack of communication, if they even just called today before the weekend and just explained they are still speaking to all the staff I would of been happy that they are trying to deal with the situation.
Shes just moved rooms and keyworker, she still runs to her old keyworker, we have requested if her keyworker can move rooms instead of moving all the toddlers up to a new keyworker.

I agree- it’s giving you no confidence if the nursery are a) not expressing concern /showing care after your report

and b) have not responded within the 24 hour window as they said they would. (Regardless of what stage their investigation is at).

I would pull them up on their handling of this. You want any queries or concerns taken seriously by the nursery.

RandomButtons · 29/09/2023 23:30

Tireddoggy · 29/09/2023 22:35

Impetigo?

The GP would have picked that up if it was.

Thanksforreading · 29/09/2023 23:16

Ghostytoasty · 29/09/2023 21:59

I had friction burn a while ago. It started white then over time reddened and darkened as it scabbed, I wonder if that’s similar here? It because of the depth the burn went down to, if that makes sense.

@Ghostytoasty yes you are correct, hence the first photo is lighter (night time bedroom lighting, weeping and oozing mark) second photo 13 hours later, morning natural light and scabbing has starter forming

OP posts:
Thanksforreading · 29/09/2023 23:12

@SmileyClare thanks for that! I’m pretty calm, was completely flustered and panic mode yesterday. Yes, we are based in London and most nurseries have a six months to a year waiting time.

I pray they call for Monday, it’s very frustrating when there is a lack of communication, if they even just called today before the weekend and just explained they are still speaking to all the staff I would of been happy that they are trying to deal with the situation.
Shes just moved rooms and keyworker, she still runs to her old keyworker, we have requested if her keyworker can move rooms instead of moving all the toddlers up to a new keyworker.

OP posts:
SmileyClare · 29/09/2023 23:07

tkwal · 29/09/2023 22:58

It looks like a mark from a very hard pinch or nip to me

That wound isn’t consistent with being pinched.

The skin looks to have been rubbed - removing some layers- urine is an irritant which would cause the sore to “burn” and later scab over.

Its an abrasion (or possibly a sore caused by bacterial infection- I linked to impetigo up thread which can present as a burn like sore).

tkwal · 29/09/2023 22:58

It looks like a mark from a very hard pinch or nip to me

Ilovebudgies · 29/09/2023 22:58

I personally think there is no excuse for it. A nursery should have a procedure in place that every nappy is changed at a certain time, unless a poo in which case it's changed immediately.
So not only would they have missed the time for the nappy change, but it's just bloody obvious when a nappy is hanging like that and they've just left it. What else are they ignoring or turning a blind eye to? Changing nappies is the very minimum you expect from a childcare provider, the absolute minimum.
I'd have some serious questions and I wouldn't go back.

Thanksforreading · 29/09/2023 22:56

TheLightProgramme · 29/09/2023 21:51

Im confused about the order of the photos.

The first looks mild - i could imagine it being caused by a full nappy rubbing on chubby thighs. Not ideal but it happens - a big wee fills a nappy fast.

The second looks like its bleeding/open. Unless there had been urine/faeces sitting on the skin between photos 1 & 2 im not clear as to how it gets so much worse

@TheLightProgramme The first photo was taken at night time with bedroom lighting. It was also oozing and weeping, so the light reds in colour.
The second photo was taken 13 hours later in the morning in natural lighting, and also where that using a weeping was, it’s starting to scab hence the darker red in colours. Hope that explains it.

it’s completely red with scabbing now before she went to bed at 7pm so it’s healing.

OP posts:
SmileyClare · 29/09/2023 22:56

PutinSmellsPassItOn · 29/09/2023 22:37

That's been caused by a hanging nappy, it's disgusting, absolutely no way would my child be going back.

It’s seems likely.
However, I would wait to see how the nursery responds and any action they take afterwards- for example disciplining her key worker, acknowledging their mistake, or providing you with reassurances.

Its all very well people saying “Pull her out!” but nurseries (particularly in London) are full to capacity with long waiting lists, and op has a job she presumably can’t afford to walk out of.

It’s very difficult to sort childcare at short notice and might not be the best outcome if dd is happy, settled there and has bonded with the staff and iother children- and has shown no signs of being left in soiled nappies before? (nappy rash or sore skin)

My advice- think calmly and rationally, consider if you have any other causes for concern - before taking any further action.

Its also best to consider other possibilities before making allegations x

Hufflepods · 29/09/2023 22:37

There was literally a post a week or two ago from a mum who’s daughter had a very similar wound on her leg also thought to be from a wet nappy being left for way too long at nursery!
This looks very similar.

PutinSmellsPassItOn · 29/09/2023 22:37

That's been caused by a hanging nappy, it's disgusting, absolutely no way would my child be going back.

Tireddoggy · 29/09/2023 22:35

Impetigo?

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 29/09/2023 22:33

I know I've been banging on about it must have happened shortly before you saw it OP, but now that you've said her nappy was absolutely fresh at bathtime and she was wearing trackies I'm convinced it has happened at the end of the nursery day, they've changed her (overfull or badly fitting) nappy just before you arrived, and the mark wasn't noticeable to them at that point. But her skin has been wet from wee, and then either a saggy nappy or the elastic leg cuff has been rubbing the wet skin and the irritation and burn has then developed between nappy change and bed time to become more and more visible.

Do her trousers smell of wee?

Findingmyway38 · 29/09/2023 22:28

Our toddler had this but not quite so bad at nursery (and also only 3 mins from our home). This was the final straw for us after he moved up a room and had been coming home with nappy rash that worsened during the week and then healed over the weekend and would then start again from Monday. It was definitely him running in a full nappy and chafing, but there was a bigger issue of poor attention being paid to nappy changing. We took a few pics, husband immediately went back to the nursery to speak to the manager (we had raised the rashes with the room lead twice and so this was our plan to escalate before this had happened anyways) and followed up in writing. Happy to say it is all resolved, more care has been taken and the trust we originally had with the nursery is restored by how they handled it, owned it, and fixed it. I think these things can happen sometimes if they don't realise, but for us this was the final straw in a series of worsening nappy issues. Hope your daughter makes a speedy recovery and your nursery provides you with the right resolution!

Ghostytoasty · 29/09/2023 22:25

Ilovebudgies · 29/09/2023 22:23

I also think the nursery know exactly what causes this (a wet nappy) and are trying to think what to say.

I agree, the fact they haven’t gotten back to you suggests a guilty conscience and an attempt to cover up to me…

I would be moving my child elsewhere too but maybe wait for their response. Hope she recovers soon, frictions burns are very unpleasant.

Ilovebudgies · 29/09/2023 22:23

I also think the nursery know exactly what causes this (a wet nappy) and are trying to think what to say.

Museya15 · 29/09/2023 22:15

Gosh be very careful that doesn't go septic, probably needed antibiotic cover.x

Boredatwork1234 · 29/09/2023 22:14

If you have seen the GP and they think any foul play is happening they will do a safe guarding referral and your HV will be informed. This could trigger some inspections etc.

Hopefully your nursery will come back soon, it’s an odd place for an injury. Hope she feels better soon. Don’t listen to PP lots of working parents use childcare and it’s not an odd time for pick up at all!

Sunnyeggyp · 29/09/2023 22:11

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What on earth do speech development problems have to do with going to nursery till 5.45pm ? You seem confused.

SmileyClare · 29/09/2023 22:08

Ghostytoasty · 29/09/2023 21:59

I had friction burn a while ago. It started white then over time reddened and darkened as it scabbed, I wonder if that’s similar here? It because of the depth the burn went down to, if that makes sense.

I agree. Any burn/sore/graze looks worse over 24 hours before it gets better. It’s the body’s way of trying to heal- producing pus, forming a scab which darkens.

it entirely possible the initial mark wasn’t noticed during her nappy change- you say she returned with a dry nappy? And that it wasn’t causing her discomfort at nursery.

There are three main concerns:

Is her nappy changed regularly enough and being fastened properly? Can the nursery evidence this?

Is there play equipment that could potentially cause a fiction burn?

And the last concern is the way you’ve been dealt with.
You were informed you’d be given a reply within 24 hours and this didn’t happen.
There appears a lack of interest or concern from the nursery.

Ilovebudgies · 29/09/2023 22:08

I'm sorry but I really think this is a friction burn from a wet sagging nappy and it's got worse over a period of time. I've seen another example of this before. It doesn't take much once the skin is irritated for it to worsen and break as children aren't really aware of it so don't adjust their movements like adults do.

Imperfectp3rf3ction · 29/09/2023 22:06

If it is a friction burn the most simple explanation is a way over full nappy anything else the trackies would have protected from/ or show signs of damage. What kind of heating system do they have ? Could there definitely be no other allergies?. To me it either looks like a regular burn or a reaction to something however if it is a friction burn the only 'reasonable' a nappy that would be neglectful. I don't like the location of it and definitely would not be sending my kids back

PinkMoscatoLover · 29/09/2023 22:05

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Wtf. My DD is 2 and non verbal. She goes to nursery but by your logic she shouldn’t go at all? Weird!

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