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Original poster

School refusing to provide translator

765 replies

CapturedLeprechaun · 27/09/2023 22:19

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

OP posts:
Dacadactyl · 27/09/2023 22:48

CapturedLeprechaun · 27/09/2023 22:46

Only quoting this one because it seems to be the lone voice, so I fully accept that the consensus is the school is behaving reasonably here.

It's a London borough school in a fairly deprived area - 40% FSM, and their "persistent absence" (e.g. less than 90% attendance) is 33%, which is huge compared to nationwide figures.

I'm stepping down at the end of this term anyway, my kids no longer attend this school and Governing body is a thankless task for a whole lot of work.

But I just felt uneasy about it. The new Head, in a bid to improve attendance, has taken a zero tolerance approach to prosecuting for school attendance, and has passed ten families over to the LA to take to court for non-attendance. This is a potential £2.5K fine. I guess I just don't really know where the line is in a sort of "if parents are being taken to court for their child's non attendance and risking a 2.5K fine or three months imprisonment, so they even understand this?!" sort of way.

I can totally accept the money isn't there, and I don't really know what the solution is, I just felt uneasy about this sort of zero tolerance approach, and I did wonder whether NHS/police would provide translators still for important matters, regardless of how long someone had been in England for.

Show quote history

I'd be fairly confident that the LA will offer a translation service for this type of letter.

CyberCritical · 27/09/2023 22:47

At work we sometimes have to provide a translator and use a service to do this, on average it costs us around £150 per hour of service, less for common languages, more for rarer languages. If the school are having to pay for this service rather than being able to use staff that have the ability to speak several language, then it is a big expense.

Kendodd · 27/09/2023 22:47

Not unreasonable at all.
It's not like the old days, there are so many free online translation resources nowadays. The parents can just bring their phones will them. Also, I don't know why the school is giving language lessons to the parents. Again, there are so many free recourses online for learning, it's a choice on the parents part not to bother.

AnneLovesGilbert · 27/09/2023 22:47

OP, what cuts would you prefer to see so this could continue to be funded?

Can you explain what’s decisive about asking people who live in England to learn English? Would you expect the previous level of support to be in place for your family if you moved to another country for years on end?

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 27/09/2023 22:46

Given the squeeze on school finances, it's hardly surprising that the school can't afford this for everyone. If you think it's the wrong decision, what would you have them cut instead? The reality is that they almost certainly can't afford to carry on as they are. So either they cut the interpreting services or they cut something else (staffing? resources? premises maintenance?) that might have a more significant impact on the education of the children and/or their health and safety etc. I don't imagine that they have many options.

Original poster
CapturedLeprechaun · 27/09/2023 22:46

LadyWithLapdog · 27/09/2023 22:35

This wouldn’t apply in the NHS, and rightly so. You can’t be doing things to people without informed consent, so they need translation services. As much for the protection of staff as that of patients. I wonder where that would leave a school if parents don’t understand what’s going on.

Only quoting this one because it seems to be the lone voice, so I fully accept that the consensus is the school is behaving reasonably here.

It's a London borough school in a fairly deprived area - 40% FSM, and their "persistent absence" (e.g. less than 90% attendance) is 33%, which is huge compared to nationwide figures.

I'm stepping down at the end of this term anyway, my kids no longer attend this school and Governing body is a thankless task for a whole lot of work.

But I just felt uneasy about it. The new Head, in a bid to improve attendance, has taken a zero tolerance approach to prosecuting for school attendance, and has passed ten families over to the LA to take to court for non-attendance. This is a potential £2.5K fine. I guess I just don't really know where the line is in a sort of "if parents are being taken to court for their child's non attendance and risking a 2.5K fine or three months imprisonment, so they even understand this?!" sort of way.

I can totally accept the money isn't there, and I don't really know what the solution is, I just felt uneasy about this sort of zero tolerance approach, and I did wonder whether NHS/police would provide translators still for important matters, regardless of how long someone had been in England for.

OP posts:
readbooksdrinktea · 27/09/2023 22:46

The school's reasonable. All that must cost a fortune.

Theimpossiblegirl · 27/09/2023 22:46

As a member of the Governing Body you must know about budget constraints. It's crap but you shouldn't be blaming the school.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 27/09/2023 22:43

Not what you asked but could the school do some community outreach type work where they can get volunteers from the biggest communities and who can work with the school to translate or at least summarise key documents?

Dacadactyl · 27/09/2023 22:40

I think this is reasonable and am blown away by the school's efforts to accommodate people thus far.

The parents can go to the English lessons that the school provides do that they will understand the language.

People should integrate if they come to this country. I believe that the children will also benefit if their parents can speak English too.

Fullofpudding · 27/09/2023 22:40

Sorry if you live in England then you need to learn English!!

Hankunamatata · 27/09/2023 22:40

There's no money in the budget I would guess. It's crap and its unfair but wouldn't be the first time Iv seen primary age kids translating for mum or dad.
I know what you mean about feeling uncomfortable, these children will be disadvantaged by their parents not being able to speak English.
You could try approaching local community groups that might have volunteers willing to help out at important parents meetings as a translator, you might find parents in the school willing to help out too. As for letters home I would agree that translater app would be an OK solution.

RoseBucket · 27/09/2023 22:39

It’s not a schools job to parent the parent.

gogomoto · 27/09/2023 22:38

By giving them a year, yes I think that's fair. If you live in another country you need to learn the language and in a year you can acquire a decent level of fluency if you immerse yourself. These days you need to pass English proficiency even to get a spouse visa so those who are not recently arrived refugees should be competent in the basics

CurlyhairedAssassin · 27/09/2023 22:38

I'm also interested to find out why you think that requiring all parents to have an understanding of the local language is "divisive". It's exactly the opposite, surely. ? The school is doing plenty already by the sound of it.

theysaiditgetseasier · 27/09/2023 22:37

Feel bad for those 20% of kids who's funding has been cut for so long and by so much to support families who can't be bothered to learn the native language in the country that they live in.

A drain on public resources if after 5 years the parents / carers can't speak basic conversational English.

ChesterDrawz · 27/09/2023 22:37

If money was no object, fine. But that's not the case and the cost of translation - which is not cheap - will mean cuts elsewhere to fund it.

It's absolutely right and reasonable that there should be a limit on the use of translation facilities.

AnneLovesGilbert · 27/09/2023 22:36

Sounds very reasonable. If they’re offering free English classes during the day and in the evening hopefully there’s a good uptake. It’s obviously better for the children for their parents to be learning the language of the country they live in.

LadyWithLapdog · 27/09/2023 22:35

This wouldn’t apply in the NHS, and rightly so. You can’t be doing things to people without informed consent, so they need translation services. As much for the protection of staff as that of patients. I wonder where that would leave a school if parents don’t understand what’s going on.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 27/09/2023 22:35

And yeah, parents can use google translate for letters, or get a friend to explain them. I just can't see a French school, say, producing a version of a letter in English, for an English family who had moved into the area. I really don't see the difference for families moving here.

If it's a refugee type of situation then there are often local charities that help such families with integrating into the local community. But that can't go on for years and years. Those parents will simply have to learn English going forward.

madeinmanc · 27/09/2023 22:34

The reason you are all thinking Google Translate is wonderful and the solution is that you will have been translating into English, the language which has benefitted from the most research and funding. Don't make the mistake of assuming it's similarly accurate translating into lesser spoken languages (relative to English).

PurpleRadish · 27/09/2023 22:33

I think it's fine. They should learn English.

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2023 22:33

Given that you can download 'Say Hi' for free which will translate typed word or take photos of text and translate it, I simply don't understand why so many resources were allocated in the first place. It's really not needed.

MaudGonneOutForAFag · 27/09/2023 22:32

It’s not ideal, but I can see why — having translators to such an extent must have been cripplingly expensive, and this is a compromise.

I don’t know where things are with the NHS and translators these days, but when I lived in north-east London in 2011/12, on several occasions I ended up translating for fellow-patients at my GP surgery because a translator wasn’t available or hadn’t shown.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 27/09/2023 22:32

If there is no money for it there's no money for it. I work in a primary school. Finances are dire now.

I mean, I wouln't take MY family to another country and expect the local school to provide a translator for me. It's up to me to learn enough to get by, and if my language wasn't good enough to understand meeting to find myself someone who could translate, even if it meant I had to pay for it. It simply wouldn't be the school's responsibility to spend money on MY lack of knowledge of the language. They need to spend any resources for EAL on the pupils that need it, not their parents. That's not unreasonable, OP.

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