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Original poster

School refusing to provide translator

765 replies

CapturedLeprechaun · 27/09/2023 22:19

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

OP posts:
Tartareistasty · 28/09/2023 09:10

ZippedTop · 28/09/2023 08:54

Really? I have never heard low-paid Asian exploited construction workers in Dubai being called ex-pats. I stand corrected then.

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You do know that Asians in ME don't do just low paid exploited jobs, do you.
I said they "call themselves that". If you go on chat boards people do very often say "I am x expat" no matter what job they have. Obviously as with any, not all will use it, but many, many do.
The newspapers also call everyone expat. "Filipina expat" "Pakistani expat" and so on.

MoonShinesBright · 28/09/2023 09:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Highandlows · 28/09/2023 09:08

I wonder what are the countries were British expats go to drain local school resources? Expats go to work or have retiree visas. If you send your kids to international school those are private. Usually those parents only move there temporarily for work. Very different situation. They are not taking away from the budgets of those schools.

Loopylambs · 28/09/2023 09:08

Funding and resources are under immense pressure . You say some families have lived here 5 or more years and still speak no English. Surely it is in their children’s interest for them to learn the language. I have lived abroad for a few years and had to learn the language , I wouldn’t expect a translator to be provided . There are free courses , apps etc to learn languages, maybe they should be made aware of these? You say you offer free language classes weekly?
Maybe parents who speak various languages should be asked to volunteer to translate if needed ?
I would rather see the stretched funding spent on resources in the classrooms for all children.

Sushiandunagi · 28/09/2023 09:08

I think translations for everything beyond a year is indeed just enabling incompetence. I’m a foreigner and never in a million years would I have dreamt that the school should accommodate. Moreover, I think it should be 100% main requirement to receive any sort of state benefits or help. I also have a property in France and same applies there - no way French would have even given a free years worth of translators. There’s Google translate, there are courses available etc. yes their parents might be illiterate but children pick up the language very quickly and can translate. We had lots of Ukrainian children in our school who picked up a decent level pf speaking within a year.

RudsyFarmer · 28/09/2023 09:07

Don’t we criticise English people who reside in Spain and refuse to learn Spanish

OldTinHat · 28/09/2023 09:07

The school is making the right decision imo.

Dancingonandonandon · 28/09/2023 09:07

skyfalldown I agree but sometimes a shove is what’s needed, though I can see the child having to translate for the parent (s) who won’t learn.

PinkRoses1245 · 28/09/2023 09:06

Hopelesslyn · 27/09/2023 22:25

There are free apps now that can translate as the person speaks and google translate does it instantly when put over writing so I don’t think this is an unreasonable request especially after a year .

This. There are other options. It seems fair given they must be under financial pressure, and better money spent on teaching

Fluffypuppy1 · 28/09/2023 09:05

YABU. My DP’s have lived in France and Spain. No free translation services in either country, even for hospital appointments. If you want a translator you have to pay for one.

Everywednesday · 28/09/2023 09:04

CapturedLeprechaun · 27/09/2023 22:46

Only quoting this one because it seems to be the lone voice, so I fully accept that the consensus is the school is behaving reasonably here.

It's a London borough school in a fairly deprived area - 40% FSM, and their "persistent absence" (e.g. less than 90% attendance) is 33%, which is huge compared to nationwide figures.

I'm stepping down at the end of this term anyway, my kids no longer attend this school and Governing body is a thankless task for a whole lot of work.

But I just felt uneasy about it. The new Head, in a bid to improve attendance, has taken a zero tolerance approach to prosecuting for school attendance, and has passed ten families over to the LA to take to court for non-attendance. This is a potential £2.5K fine. I guess I just don't really know where the line is in a sort of "if parents are being taken to court for their child's non attendance and risking a 2.5K fine or three months imprisonment, so they even understand this?!" sort of way.

I can totally accept the money isn't there, and I don't really know what the solution is, I just felt uneasy about this sort of zero tolerance approach, and I did wonder whether NHS/police would provide translators still for important matters, regardless of how long someone had been in England for.

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And you know that schools follow LA guidance when referring non-attendance over. The LA has the final say on whether a fine is applied or not and any income goes to the LA, not the school. So fines from your school would be applied in accordance with LA policy, consistently across all their schools, of not on the whim of a head.

skyfalldown · 28/09/2023 09:03

Confused by people saying that Brits wouldn’t move abroad and put their kids into schools where they don’t speak the language… Brits do this all the time, even within their own country

Waxdrip · 28/09/2023 09:00

The school is being reasonable. New translation technology is generally brilliant. What would be very helpful in my experience is drop in coffee morning type sessions rather than language lessons. This builds community and allows parents to ask questions about school in an informal way. Navigating a foreign system can be very draining and confusing. Support is needed but translating everything won't necessarily provide it.

Mumof2teens79 · 28/09/2023 08:59

Google translate is pretty good for text, and yes if they have lived here 12 months they should have either some grasp of English, or friends/family that can translate. So I think it's reasonable.

I suspect the school would still provide if there was a serious issue and parents were refusing to engage help or hadn't understood they needed to.

Ariela · 28/09/2023 08:56

Kendodd · 27/09/2023 23:34

I wonder if the fact that the school (and wider society) IS providing, almost, on demand, translation services is one reason that, even after living in the UK for 5+ years, no English has been learnt?

I think this is quite probably very true.

HamstersAreMyLife · 28/09/2023 08:56

Your school has been generous tbh. We have a similar EAL population and I'm amazed to hear your translation services were only 1500, ours were thousands more. We took this approach last year, it's not easy but it was necessary. We have also stopped our offer of English lessons as no one applied last year and there are lots of other free lessons available in our city (not london). We benefit from being able to use the language line ad hoc when needed and several bilingual teachers. I hate pushing the onus onto the children but when we are having conversations about making staff redundant to pay for an essential boiler repair We had to cut everything else first (spoiler alert still can't pay for unexpected expenses this half term). It's a nightmare for those trying to budget within school at the moment.

Everywednesday · 28/09/2023 08:55

Op, if you are a school governor you know the answer to this. The school can't afford it. I'm amazed they have been able to fund this level of support in the past.

Would you be able to share what this cost last year? I'm sure it's an easily identified line on your end of year outturn report (which before anyone jumps in is not confidential and should be a document supporting public minutes).

Sehenswürdigkeiten · 28/09/2023 08:55

Not sure the languages they are fluent in, but has anyone suggested Duolingo app to any of them? It's far from perfect but if they have internet and a phone/tablet/laptop/access to a device then they could do that free of charge?
There is the option to learn English from a large range of languages including Bengali, Hindi, Arabic, Ukranian, a whole plethora of other European languages, Yiddish and so on.....

ZippedTop · 28/09/2023 08:54

Tartareistasty · 28/09/2023 08:48

@ZippedTop they do call themselves expats in ME. Not just Brits.
"I am x expat". I see it used all the time even when they are job searching, etc. Again, I think it goes with the change of use of "migrant" - temporary immigrant.

Really? I have never heard low-paid Asian exploited construction workers in Dubai being called ex-pats. I stand corrected then.

Soupsetscared · 28/09/2023 08:52

I am led to believe that each phone translation costs in the region of £200 per call it would be more for the NHS. If the school are giving English lessons they are helping the families a lot.

Ffsnotaconference · 28/09/2023 08:52

Tryingmybestadhd · 28/09/2023 08:47

All European countries do provide translation and many others outside the EU

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No they don’t.

Theres plenty of people posting backing up that they don’t.

Sehenswürdigkeiten · 28/09/2023 08:51

LuluBlakey1 · 28/09/2023 08:46

'Most Brits' do not , as adults, attend years of language classes. 'Most Brits' take little notice of language clsses whilst at school because they find them dull and irrelevent.

But that's exactly my point. Most Brits don't bother to learn another language ever. They think the world speaks English. If, later in life, they go off to live in Benidorm, they live in ex-pat colonies where they go toBritish bars, cafes, shops.They go for the weather and isolate themselves, on the whole, to their small group.

However, younger people with children who went to live in another country would find themselves learning the language because they would mix, work, shop, their children would learn it. They'd make a life there. I'm not saying they'd be fluent but they'd learn enough to get by- as would most younger people who came to the UK to start a life.

This is a cultural/control issue.

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I hated languages at school, but always wished I was more interested in them. As an adult I decided to change that and now love learning one language in particular (and have dabbled in a few others). I don't know if I am brave enough to try one with completely new characters for any length of time though - I started some Yiddish, but it sounds a lot like German, despite having completely new characters!

crochetmylifeaway · 28/09/2023 08:51

I 100% agree with the school. They have helped as much as they can. If you haven't learnt enough English to get by in a year then that's a you problem not a school problem. They have gone above any beyond. There are multiple avenues to help those with English as a second language to learn it and get help that don't cost the schools a fortune. Hell they can get help from other parents in the school who speak English.

Regholdsworthswaterbed · 28/09/2023 08:50

YABU. If I moved to to another country I'd learn the language, or at the very least use a translation app. This is pandering to those who just can't be arsed, when money should be spent elsewhere.

Sehenswürdigkeiten · 28/09/2023 08:49

C8H10N4O2 · 28/09/2023 08:35

Right, that will be why after years of language lessons several times a week most Brits struggle to ask about the weather in the language they have learned whilst on holiday.

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Not being able to ask about the weather while in holiday isn't really comparable to making no effort to learn the language your child is educated in though. Surely you can see that?
I can definitely ask what the weather is like in my main second language, and make a good go at a few others - though mostly ones with the same characters (plus a few) as English.