School refusing to provide translator

The problem is when you translate into and then back tbf. I just translated that into my native language and it's fine. And we are not particularly famous language people learn🙈

@Andnowtowhatcomesnext wrote:
It’s a tricky one but if I moved to a non English speaking country I would consider my duty as a parent to learn the language. There is also google translate, which isn’t perfect but good enough.

I'm sure you mean it when you say that you would consider it your duty to learn the local language if you moved abroad. The reality is, though, that a great many Brits who do move abroad aren't particularly great at assimilating and learning languages.

And unless you have experience of using Google Translate for translating English to the (unknown) language the OP is talking about, how can you know it is "good enough"?

For instance, I tried using Google to translate my last paragraph from English to Bengali (to pick a language at random) and back again. The result was
"And if you don't have experience using Google Translate to translate English to an unknown language like the OP is talking about, how do you know it's 'good enough'?"
This is close, but different enough to cause confusion. I don't want to translate to an unknown language. What would be the point in that? I want to translate to the specific language the OP is referring to, which is known by the parents she's referring to. I just don't know which language that is.

This is ridiculous. The parents should learn English.....or learn how to use google translate....

I'm a foreigner.

So you don't expect people who come to settle in the UK to learn English?

I got to be honest with you. Translating school communications into other languages enables scores of families (and I'm assuming housebound mums) to never assimilate into society. In fact, more should be probably done to help them integrate.

I’ve worked as legal secretary where our clients were Korean and Iranian.

If you move to another country you should learn the language.

A close friend of mine at college who was a Vietnamese bust refugee as a child (parents were Chinese and Vietnamese). Even now still she translates for them. It’s a huge problem because children end up translating and migrant groups often integrate into their own communities and make no effort to learn their home country language.

Completely agree with you.

Those who want to make the effort do so- those that don't- why shovel money at them if they can't be bothered?

Yes - reasonable decision

Translation services after a year will cost an absolute fortune!

YABU.

Who should be funding this?

If the parents can't be arsed to learn enough English to get by after being here for (at least) a year then they should hire a translator themselves if they need one.

Schools should teach in English and communication with parents should be in English. Maybe braille and sign language should be options where appropriate but there should be no translations into other languages.

Th school offers English lessons and if parents dont want to take them up or other opportunities to learn English then tough. they should at least make the effort to get the basics.

We are hosting Ukranian refugees. when they came their EnglisH was limited to Hello and thank you. 16 months later the now 15 year got a 5 in his GCSE English and geography mock and a 9 in maths plus 7 in science . his mum sits and does all his home work with him and can engage in quite lengthy conversations including parents evening although she used an app for bits of it. i hear them night after night repeating sentences and words in first Ukrainian then English.. I find lists of words in both languages. they go to local shops and if they don't know a word for something they ask..

Conversely I know a woman who has lived here for about 25 years and can barely speak a word of English and seems she can't be bothered to try.

school have to make decisions about where their budgets go and what they need most and translation for people who've lived here for years and can't be bothered is probably low down the list

That last para is not strictly correct.

You certainly do need to demonstrate proficiency in French to obtain citizenship, you don’t need to demonstrate proficiency to hold a residency permit that allows you to simply live here.

However you’ll struggle with the officialdom and paperwork required for either course of action if your French isn’t functional.

There's not enough sen provision for our kids as it is so why should more money be spent on translators for those parents of sen children who don't know any English.??

I agree with the decision. I can’t imagine being in a country for five years and no learning the language! This will hopefully force the parents to learn the language of the country they live in.

I have the same view on brits who retire to Spain and never learn any Spanish!! Etc.

It’s a tricky one but if I moved to a non English speaking country I would consider my duty as a parent to learn the language. There is also google translate, which isn’t perfect but good enough. Also, once you are settled in a new country you are likely to have made contacts who speak both your language and the native language. I do think, given funding issues, it’s the right decision.

I think creating standard written materials in different languages is a good idea as once done they need little adjustment. Including information about the second language policy and local places to learn English? If it’s clear that translators are only provided for a year and parents are given advice about other options, I feel ok about it.

If certain children are then being disadvantaged and constantly miss out then I guess that can be addressed and further support out in on an ad hoc basis?

At the risk of getting piled on. I think I agree this is the right move

I agree...
After being in England for 5 years a basic knowledge of some English is always helpful, the longer a translater is used the more it will be expected.

I acknowledge that there are many differences - for one thing, every teacher at my child's school is capable of speaking English, so there are no direct financial costs to the school in providing bilingual communications. They don't have to pay for translation, though of course there are costs in terms of staff time. Also, at least in Y3-Y6 classes, English is one of the languages the school teaches (albeit the language of the school is Welsh).

I'm not saying that the school in the OP is wrong to want to reduce translation costs, just that my own situation makes me more sympathetic with the parents who don't speak English, as I can well imagine their difficulties. My experience certainly makes me less inclined to take the view that parents who've been here a year should speak decent English. I've been in a Welsh-speaking community for a decade or more, and my language skills are rudimentary at best.

Perhaps the OP's school could find cheaper ways to support parents with poor English to access events and communicate with staff, short of employing professional translators. For example, could the PTA coordinate volunteers from the school community to translate?

Agree with this post

@CapturedLeprechaun You are still in post and need to do your role, which is bring your views and experience to the table. You don’t need to fight a fight, but at least record your concerns. I totally understand your fatigue in the role. Just keep going until Christmas and raise your concern, with the very valid and real reasons you’ve raised here. You can see in this thread the kind of opinion these families and children are subject to, just stick up for them one more time. There is no understanding about why a family or single mother will be away from the country of their mother tongue in the first place (might not be their choice), and what might have prevented them learning the language in their first year, like trauma or abuse. These children are a part of our society now, and whilst there might not be the budget, speak up for what is best for them whilst you are in post.

It might ‘only’ be 1.5k on the translation line, but there’s the cost of translating and printing all those different letters and the associated staff time which does have a cost attached. If those polish staff are translating in meetings, who is covering their workload for that hour? Is it not getting done or is it an extra thing they then have to do?

its rubbish but schools are in a difficult position and at some point parental and personal responsibility has to kick in

Unfortunately, schools have no money. It’s a choice between translators or teachers and the school’s first priority is to ensure that children are taught well. It’s what they’re assessed on through Ofsted, exams, etc. It can’t have been an easy decision but where there are choices that have to be made, this is one that’s harder to argue with.

Exactly. Many people use English as a lingua franca when abroad, not just Brits and Americans.

I've often heard Europeans from different countries using English to communicate - including Spanish tourists in Portugal which slightly suprised me.

Exactly. Many people use English as a lingua franca when abroad, not just Brits and Americans.

Good for the school!

It's the duty and responsibility of us immigrants to learn the language and culture of our host culture. Those of us who don't deserve to be left behind. If you don't want to be left behind, go somewhere that speaks your native language.

I agree OP. I've worked as an interpreter in the past and it is essential for important meetings. (Even after a lot of experience, it was difficult to know all the right vocab, so a beginner will not have much chance.) It's not enough that a parent has a vague idea of what is going on. Chances are that even someone with reasonable English as a second language in daily life for several years would not understand the details of SEN needs etc without help. The zero-tolerance approach is wrong.

The school was providing far more than European schools do to newcomers, whatever their native language including English. You’re expected to communicate in the language of the school. ( I got told off by a bank employee when I as very stressed and was trying to cancel my lost bank card and my new language deserted me. I was told to speak , you’re in now.
With technology, and the translation Apps being so easy to obtain and use, I think the school is being fair.