School refusing to provide translator

Britain has a colonial past and providing translation services to migrants from ex colonies is one way of actually making things right.

Yes, it's about time to acknowledge the atrocities in Britain's past, take responsibility and make amends.

Providing translation services to migrants from ex colonies doesn't make this good IMO. It enables families to continue living in a way where women aren't fully equal. Don't you think there's more helpful ways to make amends @ichundich?

There is a part of me that thinks for sure they should learn English after being here 5+ years. People will never integrate without the language.

We have a holiday home in a European country, where my partner is fluent and I can do enough in the language to exist day to day, including dealing with their health service for basic ailments. I'd not even think of opening in a cafe in English there, even though some of the local shopkeepers know we are English and want to improve their English and so we often end up in English too. Because of that I do get that it can sometimes be harder to pick up the second language if the other side always resorts your first for ease/speed (the equivalent of getting a translator in, it's just that many Europeans speak excellent English). I learnt much more interacting in places that weren't the airport or the tourist office when I first visited as they would default to English most quickly so I didn't really have a chance to work through conversations. Taking the opportunity a bit more improved my language skills no end. It's definitely use it or lose it. Even my fluent DP is much quicker on techncial conversations having been there 3 or 4 days rather than on arrival.

Back to the school... maybe for the odd one who's abusive husband wont let them learn then that will be a minority and the costs won't be so much as a reasonable adjustment, but I do think the default should be to do it in the main language of the county we are in, so in this case it should be in English and people will need to motivate themselves to learn.

@Gothambutnotahamster but they/we/Brits are given allowances and favours- that's my point. We accept it but draw some arbitrary line with reciprocating

@GingerTulip than you for saying this. I made this point about brits I worked with living in SE Asia. Your experience of not speaking a local language despite living abroad for years is similar to most of my ex colleagues.
I moved younger so was more enthusiastic to learn (and had more time plus was social etc) so I did but many didn't after years. Despite their kids having conversational knowledge of at least one local language

Not supporting or encouraging these women to learn the official language doesn't serve them at all because they will be forever dependent on their spouses / the males in their families

Exactly - and worse still it encourages a dreadful model for the children if they're facilitated in believing this is a lifestyle to aim for in the UK

Nobody pretends these issues are straightforward, but enabling more dependency and lack of autonomy hardly seems the answer, no matter how appealing it is to simply kick the can down the road

which is the ACTUAL issue isn't it. And yet again has everyone turning on each other and blaming 'forriners' for wasting public funds. it's so frustrating and sad

The schools budget shouldn't be used for this. The parents are welcome to bring a translator (professional or otherwise) with them. I think that's fine as a solution.

It's like so many contracted out/privatised public services - there's always profit for the agency/shareholders to be factored in

See also water, railways, utilities

They always are.
It might be a contract, you know how it is. 4 competitors, 5th last minute mate entry with inflated prices wins.
Tbf if they are doing unusual language, then that might bring extra, but yeah.

@Tartareistasty I understand that, it just seems excessive for the complexity required here. I’m not one for ‘race to the bottom’, just remarking that someone is on a roll. The agency owners.

The pupil premium is for disadvantaged students. Which isnt necessarily the ones with non english speaking parents.
Looking at our school pp is £75k and none for translation.

So the op school ks further disadvantaging thge pupils there by spending it on that. When it doesnt benefit the students learning. Ours is spent on phonics and maths intervention.
they only got £5k for covid!

However i would say our school relies heavily on parents reading with dc at home. So if the parents were unable tp dp this that wpuld be a big issue. (In fact the efl kids actually do very well academically). But 1 family - with english mum arrived fr om abroad with a child into y6 ability and the child was so far behind they didnt sit SATs. And has gone up to y7 very far behind. Presumably the kid got some intervention but in general lessons they were on an app. So moving later on can cause isues.

kids will do better where the parent has attempted to learn english. translation of letters is much less helpful to the child, potentially detrimental as making parents dependent. Including on their children.

its not like scouts or swimming lessons letters etc are translated.

This is a lovely concept and I too am all for multiculturalism. But in every day terms I think it'd be sensible to agree on integrating with a common tongue, which should be English if in the UK.

Being able to speak English will remove barriers, open doors, give access to jobs, support if needed.

I understand that cultural gender expectations often stand in the way of women integrating as @GonnaGetGoingReturns also pointed out.

Sometimes it might be a problem for these mums to learn the language because they might be illiterate, or they're expected to stay home.

Not supporting or encouraging these women to learn the official language doesn't serve them at all because they will be forever dependent on their spouses / the males in their families. That's why I said they're going to need way more specialised support to get used to a more emancipated life that can be possible for them in the UK.

These are usually certified interpreters/translaters. You can't just get for example court documents translated by anyone.
There are certifications for NHS, Police etc. These are qualified people. Plus you can have last minute call out charges and much will most lilrly go to their agency.

that's a really good question isn't it. because the actual translators don't get paid that much

Slight derail but why is it £120-£150 ph for translation? Someone is making a lot of money out of this. It can’t be both so easy that a 7 year old can translate for his parents, and so specialised you need to pay more than a surgeon.

If you go by that logic then you might also ask why we should give extra resources to SEN children or those with disabilities as these only benefit them.
Britain has a colonial past and providing translation services to migrants from ex colonies is one way of actually making things right.

So am I right in thinking you're saying there are State run high schools here in France with English teaching sections for the English Kids? How many?

I haven't seen it myself, but we're pretty rural and not in an expat bubble.

YABU 100%

Schools have such limited resources as it is and the school are already providing far more than they need to.

After one year a parent should be able to speak reasonable English. Especially as the school provides lessons.

In comparison my best mate moved to France. She had to pay for a translator herself for things like parents evening. After 1 year her daughter spoke amazing French and her French improved massively.

The kids in the school will learn English quickly. I've taught many kids speaking no English and by the end of the school year they have their hands up answering questions.

Well, if they can't speak English and work, the government must be doing that part for them.....

There are schools all over the world that teach in English: In France there are state-run high schools all over the country with English sections (and German, CHinese, Arabic etc) for foreign mother tongue students:

Im not disagreeing with you, but I would also think they're wrong to do that & wouldn't expect them to be catered to in English in those countries at all.

I'm amazed the school has been able to fund this for so long.

Better to use instant voice translation on phones and tablets, even if the odd word is misconstrued. At least that way the parents can also converse back to staff.

I once had a child from Poland introduced to my form class with 10 minutes warning. He could only say his name and Hello in English. When I enquired about how to manage the language barrier I was told to learn basic Polish on my own time and at my own expense. 'Get on with it' is the message teachers get, because there is no money.

While I agree that funding must be tight and translation services cannot realistically be offered forever, I disagree with all the comments suggesting that English people abroad wouldn't expect to have letters translated etc.

How many Brit expats learn the language of the country they live in? Many, sure, just as many immigrants to the UK do. But many do not. I have friends who lived in Spain for over 20 years and raised their children there, and they can barely string a sentence together in Spanish. This is not unusual in their area. Their children went to local schools and are fully bilingual. Their daughter often ended up translating for expat friends dealing with anything official, as so few of then could handle administrative tasks themselves.

I'm an expat in SE Asia and my knowledge of the local language is embarrassingly weak even after 5 years. It's not a problem for me (and many expats here and elsewhere) because my children attend international school so communication is always in both English and the local language (and sometimes several other languages). I know this isn't relevant to the case in question, with a regular local school, and presumably with most families intending to settle in the UK for good.

But please, let's stop assuming Brits abroad learn the language and don't expect any allowances or favours. I also totally agree with a previous poster who explained the obstacles many immigrant women face to learning English.

yes of course. keeping a roof over your head and being able to feed your kids is very motivating 🤷🏼‍♀️

It depends really and I do think it’s a cultural issue at some levels.

If you see my PP though my DB made a short film about Walthamstow (approx 8-10 years ago) which focussed on Pakistani/Indian immigrant workers (craft), women wanting to learn English etc. Most of them attended some sort of craft or social integration group with English involved from what I recall and also because they wanted to do something outside the home.

They wanted to be able to get jobs outside the hind and to be able to communicate in English but a lot of the time as the husband is the breadwinner and head of the household he has the final say. Yes of course these women have families and caring commitments but they made the effort to come to these community events/classes. So more integration needs to happen within the community so families understand the need to integrate, socialise, possibly get jobs or study.

Most younger women from this culture buck the trend completely and are fluent in English (as partly their mother tongue as it’s taught in school) and get jobs.

Money is a HUGE motivator.
This isn't a dig at anyone, it's just a fact. Cold hard cash has been shown to influence everything from stopping smoking, breast feeding rates to how many children people choose to have. I wonder if people were actually paid to learn English more people would learn. I bet the wife, not allowed out of the house would suddenly be allowed by her husband to go if she was paid to attend classes/pass exams (and the money immediately taken off her).