School refusing to provide translator

what are you on about? loads of people are working to 'tackle' it. EFFECTIVELY. It won't be tackled by with holding translated school letters

Because to ‘tackle it’ would undoubtedly lead to accusations of racism and xenophobia.

See also: the Rotherham grooming gang fiasco.

It’s too difficult and no one will try because, not unreasonably, they’re not willing to risk their own careers and lives for it.

Also... have you learned the language?

Tbf the language in places like Dubai is pretty much English - UAE citizens are only about 15% of the population and English is the common language so it's genuinely hard to actually practice convesational Arabic on a day to day basis.

That being said, if I were going to live there long-term I'd still attempt to learn it.

I would agree with the school, it would be a lovely thing of course, but schools have to constantly prioritise and even companies use google translate.

I lived abroad and children went to local schools. We all learnt the language. No translators available in schools, hospitals, GPs or local government offices. We were there for a fixed term but expected to speak the language.

The parents don’t always learn English because they don’t need to in their community because mostly where they’d spend time everyone would speak their language

But they do need English, as the school issue described by OP shows. Either English or interpreters.
I am an immigrant myself and I know the type of community living you describe, where people manage to navigate everything in their own language without needing to learn the local one.
I just don’t think it’s right, not long term.
I’m sure it can be helpful and reassuring for new arrivals, but at some point it’s important to at least try to integrate.

removing the translator's isolates them further

How much French or German did you learn in one year at school? Enough to understand complicated SEN meetings?

I think there is somewhere between not learning any native language (English expats in Spain for example) and still not being able to communicate effectively after one year. And yes there is the need to discuss funding sources, but it is not as simple as saying just learn English.

Also... have you learned the language?

Are you living in a luxurious high rise block of flats by any chance? Better ask yourself who built it, how much they were paid, how many of them were injured while working and weren't able to pay medical bills, and how many died building it, and where they are now if you think you're living in utopia.

Agree with this

I'm working in the gulf at the moment. Countries here have no benefits system, no schools or hospitals - everything has to be paid for but there are no taxes and millions of people are moving in from all over. They arrest beggars and put them on a plane back to their home country. If they have multiple beggars from one town, they won't issue visas for entry to anyone from that town.

You can't live here unless you pass chest X rays, blood tests and hand over your finger prints.

It's the safest place I've ever been. I can walk around at 1am by myself and feel totally safe.

Seriously tempting to not go back to the UK in the long term.

Couldn’t agree more.
I find it baffling how casually people mention that some women probably just aren’t allowed to learn English.
In my eyes it’s abuse and it makes those women so vulnerable. Hiring an interpreter doesn’t solve the actual issue here.

Totally agree that anyone here should learn English.

However in practice it is easier said than done.

The local Ukrainians had a massive problem getting proper lessons. They weren't funded by government.

If they went onto universal credit they were automatically put on a compulsory course - but only if they were lucky and got a space - and they had to travel by bus to get there. And then it was stupid because there was no assessment of the level of English they were at so lots of them found themselves on a course which was too basic for them (and this blocking spaces for others who needed that course). They didn't learn anything.

Then if they got a job (which they were supposed to keep looking for due to universal credit) then immediately had to stop the course if it clashes with their job!

There weren't free classes available in the evenings. There were paid for ones but you had to travel by bus to get to them. And the last bus went before they finished. If you were on minimum wage, how could you afford the class, the bus and a taxi back?

This didn't take into account people who couldn't attend the classes because they had small children either - which was many of the Ukrainians did.

But I also think £150 a time for a translator is ridiculous. The schools / government would be better investing in free very localised lessons with childcare as part of that in the evenings instead of paying for constant translation. Just to improve accessibility. It would be money better spent.

My experience of trying to help Ukrainians learn English led me to the conclusion that we aren't set up to facilitate people learning English. And then we complain that they don't.

As a rule our attitude to languages and learning them in this country is appalling. It could be argued that an 'unwillingnrss' to learn is indeed integrating into British society because that's what we do ourselves...

Because it's quite a specialised skill to do it properly, despite what you might think.

Yes there are colleges and lycées with international sections all over France with teaching paetly in English or other languages. Maonly in big cities for obvious reasons but not always. There are also perapatetic teachers and special classes for students who arrive speaking no French. And as I say, my school's PTA communicates with parents in Frrnch and English, though the school comms are all French.

@CapturedLeprechaun There was an exclusion meeting held for a child who was being excluded. Mum was Polish, we have plenty of polish speaking support staff at the school who could have translated, I think it's vital that a parent understands the reason their child has been excluded from a school and has a chance to ask questions etc. The head refused to use staff or pay for translating services for the meeting, mum didn't bring a translator, I don't think she had a clue what was happening.

So what had the mother herself done to prepare for the meeting? Downloaded a translation app, asked for support from the community?
Were the school staff willing to do this/able to re work load, or are you volunteering their services?

And how do you propose this is tackled?

I am concerned how casually people say ‘women in some cultures aren’t allowed to learn English’

So it’s imperative to the child that the parents understand what’s happening and can communicate with the school. It’s detrimental to the child of the parent can communicate.

You know women, living in the UK, are routinely stopped from learning how to communicate meaning their children are very disadvantaged

Not being able to communicate makes women far more vulnerable

Those families are known to the schools and other professionals involved

and the solution is that the school should pay for a translator?

Rather than looking at why there’s a large amount of men abusing their wives and disadvantaging their children, in these communities?

This keeps being mentioned as one of the biggest reasons to keep the translators. So I assume it’s happening a lot in non English communities? Why isn’t that being tackled?

I can see why they would need to do it due to costs etc, but I do agree it’s not very inclusive for those who don’t speak English. My job involves working with schools and families in central London where British kids are the minority in the schools. The parents don’t always learn English because they don’t need to in their community because mostly where they’d spend time everyone would speak their language, e.g Arabic. A lot of women in these families aren’t allowed to learn English even if they want to as the culture is that they stay home and look after the children and the home, so often the husbands don’t allow them to go off to English lessons if even they’re free.

how do you know the kids with ESOL parents are the same as the ones on FSMs?. Mine had FSM for a while, I am British and English is my mother tongue

Ultimately, the children and their education will suffer for their parent’s language skills. The school needs to make an effort to mitigate that impact, within the budget they have. a
@rrrrrreatt why not the parents make an effort? Why are schools and teachers being derided and being called names and blamed for the parents not doing anything?

seems fair to me - learn the language of the country you live in.

OP already quoted the number of FSM

You can definitely help your child and support their learning without speaking the language of instruction. You do so by providing time, space and resources for them to do it, for a start. You can also ask them about their work, listen to their reply (in English), explain the concepts to them (in English) for them to translate back and complete their work in Welsh.

It sounds a bit laborious, but in my experience it can sometimes work better than if the work was all in English, as the child has to engage with the work to explain it to you, and understand what you say to put it into their own words. It avoids the issue of parents just doing the work, which is useless for the child's learning.