School refusing to provide translator

Having seen your update OP that is shocking. What’s the cost in adding an extra email when it’s already done? It just seems punitive. Small amount of time to do that. I thought you meant paying for verbal translations.

So 40% of pupils attract PP; any idea of that 40% how many are from non-English speaking families?

I'm very willing to be corrected on this, but would be absolutely amazed if those figures are available - at least publicly

IME the usual response to such enquiries is that "the data isn't recorded in that way", probably because of the sensitivities involved

Wales is a country where both Welsh and English are spoken. It is perfectly fine to move to Wales and speak English unless you move into one of the majority Welsh speaking areas, in which case it would be polite to learn to speak a bit of Welsh.

TBH I think there are two separate issues.

YANBU to think that the head is being a bit overzealous with refusing to send out written communication in the other language especially if it is being created for other children anyway - if you have two Polish children where one has been there 3mo and one has been there 3 yrs, the letter is going to be translated for the 3mo student so the cost of an extra sheet of paper and a bit of toner to print the second letter for the 3yr student is negligible.

I would expect though that it would just be a regular template for the most common things eg trips/PE days/term info/annual events etc that are translated into other languages and it just provides the basic information of the event. Once the template is written all they have to do is change the specifics like the date/time for each event and attach the translated copy to the English copy.

However, YABU to expect the school to provide active translation services in meetings for families indefinitely at the school's expense. Having translation provided by the school for the first year means that anyone coming to the UK without a support network doesn't have to worry about understanding "technical English" when called into an important meeting about their child's education, but by limiting it to a year they set up a boundary as to what the school is willing to accommodate without it becoming the default that the school are the ones to source translation services. If a family needs translation after that first year then it is their responsibility to bring a translator - whether that is a professional they have paid, a friend who speaks both their native language and English or a member of school support staff that they know speaks their language and they have approached to ask of they'd be willing to support them in their meeting and is available.

I worked abroad in a Spanish school as an English teacher, my Spanish wasn't fantastic when I first moved there with ExDH (he was fluent and we moved out there primarily for his job) but I did not expect anyone to provide English translations as standard. When it was parents evening in my first year I asked the school if my HoD (no teaching responsibility so no meetings of her own) could sit in with me just in case of any translation difficulties but she only had to step in for a couple of meetings where there had been more complex issues in play that needed to be discussed.

Some places had English speakers who were happy to help when I had to do something beyond my language capabilities but for anything where I knew I needed proper translation - banking, medical, government forms etc - I initially paid for a professional translator if ExDH wasn't available and then as I was there longer (especially after ExDH moved back to the UK after our split) I would ask Spanish friends to come with me as my Spanish was pretty good and I just wanted someone there as a bit of support in case something needed explaining differently or if I had to read/sign anything (my spoken Spanish has always been far stronger than my reading/writing) so I could be sure I knew what it said.

I would never have expected an English translator to be provided as standard though a lot of ex-pats do - we had a set of parents one year who put their children in my school with zero Spanish, their children were struggling and the parents came in for a meeting. I had been there a few years so was fairly fluent by this point and happened to be the only English teacher free at the time so the Head (who had a decent grasp of English) asked me to sit in the meeting to translate, so I did and it was immediately obvious that the parents had no Spanish beyond "Hello/Goodbye/can we order two beers please?"

Initially I expected that they were recent immigrants so I was willing to cut them some slack but it turned out that they had been in the country longer than I had! The only difference was that they worked for a private English company that worked entirely in English; who also provided housing in a gated complex, which was full of their other English employees in their company housing; sorted all the admin out for their employees as part of their relocation package eg setting up bank accounts, residence paperwork, health insurance etc; and paid for their children's education which usually meant the children went to the local international school that taught entirely in English so their entire network - work and social - was English expats. They had no "need" to learn Spanish so they just didn't ... they were very surprised when I came into the meeting and after having a brief exchange in rapid Spanish with the headteacher about some other admin turned to them and introduced myself with a broad northern English accent as they assumed I was Spanish because "they could never learn Spanish that well"

Yes workers rights are shit. However those guys are here of their own free will and most fly home for a month a year and then come back - so it can't be as comparatively bad as you like to insinuate.

And Welsh speaking schools in Wales, what do they do if they have a large influx of children and their parents who don't speak Welsh or English? I imagine it's very difficult to find interpreters who speak Somali/Ukrainian/Parsi or dozens of other languages and Welsh.

So 40% of pupils attract PP; any idea of that 40% how many are from non-English speaking families? Perhaps if the PP is largely paid to children from deprived families who speak English, a fair proportion should be spent on them rather than for translation services for the people who refuse to learn the language of the home they have chosen?

Yes, and I’m sure they all have well paid, legal jobs which don’t require English 🙄

Ok, but we’re trying to compare that to a school where 80% of families don’t speak the native language, and have interpreters provided - where does that happen in Wales?

alot of schools in Wales, have children that don't speak Welsh. Lots of schools in Wales, teach in English

Well the ones with no recourse to public funds have to, innit.

Are there any schools in Wales where 80% of the children don’t speak Welsh, and the school pays indefinitely for interpreters?

Its not necessarily just abused woves. My friend, her mum didnt speak much english. The dad owned a shop but presumably the mum didnt work there. Or outside the home. The dd had a scholarship for english. And it wasnt sexism either. But it was back in 90s. The dad died being older than the mum and she i assume struggled a bit without the language etc.
I think reasonable adju stment would be 1-2 families per school not this! In several languages. Its clear whichever communities there need to be more english speakers.
also i wouldnt expect parents eve to be translated at primary as its rarely that important. Imagine value vs costing yourself £150?
i do think sen meeting s though. However some of what is looking like sen at primary may well be struggle of a child with no home support for the work and having limited language in tbeir second language. Im sure the ks2 sats results were quite interesting showing the value of education.

i find speaking /listening harder so maybe written PE might be better?

Given that OP already said that over 80% of the pupils have English as a second language, and many of the parents speak little or no English at all, and that 40% of students are on FSM, most reasonable people would conclude that at least half of the children on FSM are from families with little or no English.

The unreasonable but was that this nonsense was ever funded in the first place!!!

So now we’re assuming that people who cannot speak English are able to work and earn enough to support a family, paying London rental prices, with no assistance from low or no wage benefits? Bit of a reach…

Can I just point out that
Translator - written word
Interpreter - spoken word
Quite difference in skills needed there

Fsm was extended to people with no recourse to public funds afaik

And providing translated letters or a translator isn’t helping either.

Do you believe these abused women are a recent phenomenon? I am not British but grew up here and can promise this has been going on for years. Has it got much better?

I agree with this. We have similar and it costs a fortune. A line need to be drawn somewhere and a year and the offer of English classes is a good one. European countries do not offer this and any translation required is funded by the parents, not the school.

I've never said I think it should be accepted. It's extremely poor form for people to move abroad and not at least try integrate - whoever / whichever direction the move is in. They should be trying to integrate, not expecting all public services to fund their lack of local language skills.

How much French or German did you learn in one year at school?

There's a difference between two or three lessons a week delivered by a non-native speaker, not even over a full calendar year, and living in the country where you see the language all around you (going to the supermarket, you see the words for basic foodstuffs), hear it spoken all around you, and can engage in conversation with people who speak the language.

I was on holiday in Wales this summer. Even in a week, if one pays attention to signs and announcements in Welsh, one begins to acquire a vocabulary. We weren't in a predominantly Welsh speaking area, so didn't hear Welsh spoken very much.

How do people who don't understand English know how to apply for a school place, and know where and when to turn up for the first day?

They might have difficulty accessing free English lessons, but it has never been easier to learn English, or any other language you care to name, than it is now. There are loads of free resources available online.

I have a French friend who is a secondary school science teacher at a school in France. Some of the older years have their science classes taught in English. This is nothing to do with inability to speak French though, almost all the students are French. It's partly to prepare them for science at university, where they will need English and partly to cement English learning.

I agree with the school's decision.