School refusing to provide translator

I mean, if they have some actual legal way I'd love to know! Would love to bring my parents over, for the record they speak excellent English and have many more years of work. I don't think they'd want to live here but to stay for longer than a few months would be great instead of flying back and forth.
But there isn't really a legal way. And I'm too chicken to break the law.
I did recall the OP mentioned something about illegal immigration but she might have edited it out.

@OspreyLambo well I don’t know then.
I can only say what I’ve seen which seems to be whole families coming over but hey I don’t know how they are doing it.

Like you say I guess things can be faked. And yes you are right I don’t know how it’s all working when there are lots of different languages and cultures coming together.

But there are communities where learning English is definitely not a necessity.

Actually thats not what I found looking for Ukrainians.

They needed something which was Ukrainian - English. There were resources but actually they were frankly shit. I spent HOURS looking.

The problem was largely finding something that was roughly at the level they were at. Otherwise huge chunks of it were pointless. And it didn't really help with speaking and confidence. Theres no substitute for face to face for that.

I was genuinely surprised at the lack of good quality free resources which were worth your time. Lots of crap, not so much worthwhile.

This is what I alluded to earlier - in such a place I'd expect a large proportion of students to speak the same language, not SIX different languages (enough for it to be noticeable).
But also, if the community is due to chain migration most of them would know each other, surely if they care about their kids it would be easy for them to find a bilingual person to translate? Especially if they've been here generations and the kids have been educated in English - it seems to have made no difference at all.

Btw not sure how much you know about visas but the UK is very strict. You can't just move your 'parents and siblings' over in fact these days only your spouse/partner and dependent children. And to get a visa you need to demonstrate competence in the English language! They might have their own little channels to make these things happen though. Certainly there are people from my country working here as cooks in restaurants who speak little English, usually they can't get visas but you can get a lot of things faked if you pay for it.

No idea why people move to some other country just to make their own little enclave - refugees understandable but from what you say these people aren't. Also, if they have enough resources to provide their own community with London housing etc (which is expensive!) then they're certainly not poor.

I remember an open day at a London uni where an Indian guy from Harrow told me he was looking forward to going to uni because Harrow was 'all Indians' and he wanted 'more diversity'. Me, a person of actual Indian descent (among other things) from SouthEast Asia almost spat my coffee out!

In a particular area of london, there is an absolutely huge community all from the same place. I have lived and worked there for years.

It appears (and no I don’t have immigration data to back this up) that most of the immigration is family migration. So someone lives here, marries someone from the original country, who then moves their parents and siblings over. Then one of those siblings marries someone else from the original country and the whole thing starts again. There are many people who’ve been here for 20 years who don’t speak a word of English, and lots and lots of young people who are clearly newcomers and also don’t speak English.

Many people honestly don’t really need to learn. All the shops are run by people from the community, the places of worship, cafes etc. Banks/libraries whatever have enough staff from the community that are bilingual. Then translation services are provided in council/benefit offices, health care schools etc.

There are certainly many people that have excellent English, but if you couldn’t be arsed, (or your husband wouldn’t let you) you wouldn’t need to.

I agree it doesn't account for all the languages but Arabic and Farsi alone would account for people with serious recent trauma sufficient to affect their learning

And the situation with Afghanistan is complicated

The school has done a lot to accommodate so far, moreso than any other school I know. I agree with the head, it is just putting more pressure and expectations on over worked school staff.

You say that you cannot understand why they can't just use support staff to translate. Support staff are there to support pupils learning. With the details you provided about the school, this support is very much needed in class and the head is right to prioritise. You clearly don't understand the knock on effect of taking a member of staff from their daily duties.

Arabic and Farsi possibly. Pashto, yes on the surface but most people repatriated/managed to make their way here were either well-educated enough to speak English or helped the British (in which case they'd almost certainly speak English).
Not the rest. Polish/Romanian especially not. Free movement was stopped since Oct 2021, so it's been 2 years.

Always amazed at the generosity of British people. This is an English speaking country. The school has already gone out of their way to accommodate people who, after 5 years still didn't bother to learn the language. Probably at the expense of other educational provision and activities. Of course it's unreasonable to "expect" translation services.

Also having a background as an asylum seeker from wars persecution/torture can seriously impede an adults ability to learn new information. organise their lives. trust people - all important in learning a new language

Rather than illegal immigrants or human trafficking - from the languages spoken I wonder if these families are legitimate asylum seekers or have successfully claimed asylum in recent years probably living in temporary accomodation??

Whilst it's particularly difficult to be re-housed in London some families may be re-uniting with fathers already in the capital

I don't think it's 'just' about translation, but engagement and cultural understanding.

Even so-called 'developed' countries like France have a terrible attitude towards, say, children with autism. Let alone some other cultures where words for these things don't even exist. In a couple of my languages the words for autism, ADHD, dyslexia don't exist, they're just plonked in from English.

If there is indeed such a high concentration of people from specific communities, then the better approach would be to pay a single community liaison officer, who can support with all these school related matters. Not just in 'official' meetings. Or, as I said, if these people are surviving with little to no English then someone must be helping them, and that someone should be engaged.

Of course maybe this is pie-in-the sky, maybe these things would cost more but what I'm trying to say is that just 'translating' isn't very effective.

A lot of my country people not only don't believe in neurodiversity you could explain all of it, with a translator they'd still think you're making it up, or making excuses. Heck, even in English many concepts such as PDA (pathological demand avoidance) are very academic.

Perhaps the school is trying to force the responsibility to someone else. Or, maybe these translation isn't very effective anyway. As it's been there for so many years, with the same communities, OP's been there 'YEARS' and it's still going on.

Nothing seems to have improved, has it?

Also, as much as people go on about SEN - not understanding that PE kit needs to be worn smacks of disengagement. Even my illiterate grandmother knew that.

At the end of the day how many plain 'cba' issues is the language barrier covering for?

people are acting as if translation/interpretation services are merely a service to the parents and withdrawing them has no impact on children

But why is that the school's responsibility and not the parents?

Why do the school have to fund it? Why can't the parents fund it? I would never have expected my DDs school or any other authority to have provided translators when I had to discuss complex issues, I took the responsibility on myself because it was my issue not theirs.

Xenophobia aside, people are acting as if translation/interpretation services are merely a service to the parents and withdrawing them has no impact on children. It does. It may not be practical to have a trained interpreter at every general meeting, but imagine a child with SEN and trying to explain to the parents that the chid needs interventions or evaluation without speaking the language! Even if they had basic conversational English it would be quite a thing to explain dyslexia or autism. You really need to be fully fluent for that level of conversation.

People think if you force someone to learn English and provide the right carrots and sticks that will solve the problem. it doesn't unless you understand the actual obstacles to them learning.

I'm also finding this whole thing really strange.
How are these people living in London. with children, without being able to speak a world of English? Somehow they manage to rent a place, pay council tax etc etc.
If someone is helping them with these things surely they can help translate too.
The school doesn't have to do so.

Even WITH benefits London rents are very high, and council housing is very hard to get. Smells odd to me. And they're all on FSM?

Even 'deprived' areas of London are more expensive than 'OK' areas of. say the North West. It's London after all.

I can understand an enclave of people from a community (like Harrow is full of Indians) but there are SO many different languages at the OP's school. So how do they communicate with each other??

Furthermore in the last couple of decades it's been extremely difficult to get a visa, it's not like the 80's where Commonwealth citizens could just move here and even EU citizens can't. post Brexit. So where have these people come from - they must not have been here long if they can't speak a lick of English?

Honestly I'd suspect a high degree of human trafficking and illegal immigration. I think OP mentioned it but edited it out. People see reporting it as a potential 'deportation' but really as long as people are here illegally they will continue to be exploited by whoever is housing them/giving them work.

@CapturedLeprechaun could a compromise be that the letters are all published on the school parent portal.and so people can download in the specific language if they want it? That way anyone who needs has access. I agree it seems bonkers that if the templates exist and the letters are created, why not send them out

Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many situations where the Mother has been being physically abused for years and isn’t able to inform anyone to get help because she hasn’t been allowed to learn English

So if you provide an interpreter they would be safe? But they can’t reach out to alternative services?

I’m in total agreement that women that aren’t allowed to learn English is abuse. But this is why it’s important for these women to be able to communicate in some way with potentially the only professionals/people they speak to outside their family and community so they can speak up if they’re being abused and get the correct support. Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many situations where the Mother has been being physically abused for years and isn’t able to inform anyone to get help because she hasn’t been allowed to learn English. It’s only when neighbours have called the police and the women have been in the safety of a police station with an interpreter that they’ve been able to disclose the abuse. If the schools and services that come into contact with families can provide interpreting services so they can communicate with them then they have way more chance of spotting abuse sooner.

Not funding interpreters and translators is a typical false economy though, especially in healthcare. Much better to pay £40 to keep people in touch with the health system than risk an outbreak of TB for instance.

I paid £40 of NHS money to get a letter translated into French recently. Just imagine that cost repeatedly.... much better for the person to get lessons

That's not true. I have friends who grew up in wales and learned Welsh throughout school. They have GCSEs in Welsh language.
They are in their late 30s now.

Plenty of time to learn if you want to

I'm hosting 2 Ukrainian refugees both no English on arrival. Both have learned enough that the child passed 11+ exam and she works. No expensive translation services involved.

Husband moved a lot as a child with Dad's work. He speaks fluent Spanish, Punjabi and French.

Interpretation services just support continuing helplessness. There are loads of online language lessons and speaking with locals is the fastest way to learn

Given that 80% of children come from families with other primary languages, and 40% of children in the school are on FSM, I think we can calculate that at least half of the children attracting PP are those from non- English speaking families?

It obviously depends on the demographics of the area. There are a ton of native english speakers at my local lycée international.

DisquietintheRanks I think Welsh is a bit different in that it is only just now building back up. Up until fairly recently very few people spoke it. Children didn’t learn it in school. It’s not really a useful comparison IMHO.