Page 5 | Refusing to pay tradesmen

Wifeoftrades · 2023-09-27T18:01:54+00:00

DH is a tradesman and has finished job. The customer is refusing to pay and it's quite obvious now that this was always his intention. He has admitted that there is no problem with the work but he can't afford it and never could but it needed doing. DH is out ££££ on materials and paying his employees. I'm just so sick of tradespeople being treated like this, you wouldn't believe how common it is. There is basically no chance of him ever seeing that money. How would you like to go to work for a week and then have your company say that they've decided not to pay you? Please do not hire someone if you can't pay them.

Fahbeep · 27/09/2023 19:16

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:07

His materials cannot be removed without leaving the property seriously compromised so that's not a possibility. I believe small claims has a max of £5000 and this exceeds that. Also very hard for the trades to win if the customer spins a tale of lies.

Small claims limit is £10k. Each side bear there own costs if they behave reasonably. You have a good claim. If you get a judgment, give it to a bailiff to enforce.

Ofcourseshecan · 27/09/2023 19:16

This is disgusting, OP. Lots of sympathy to you and DH. It enrages me that when people who have been robbed like this take (nonviolent but property-damaging) revenge, they’re the ones likely to be arrested.

Self-employed friends of mine have had good results with the small claims court and it wasn’t too time-consuming or difficult. So I recommend it to your DH.

Also, is there a local Facebook or Nextdoor group you could post on, or a trade group where you could warn other tradespeople.?

Best of luck.

CassieRole · 27/09/2023 19:16

What are your terms and conditions? Do you have retention of title.
Send a 7 day letter, then small claims, move to enforcement and then appoint high court sheriff for recovery.

Only had to do it once in 15 years.

Hufflepods · 27/09/2023 19:15

Swings and roundabouts really. It’s incredibly easy for tradesmen to fold with basically no
liability and just start trading again the next day after fucking over their customers.
I lost about £15k from a shitty builder and there’s basically no recourse.

More accountability is needed to protect both sides.

Your husband really shouldn’t be working when he is happy to cover all the materials up front and not have a structured payment plan.

TomatoSandwiches · 27/09/2023 19:15

The customer can lie all they like but if your husband has his evidence to the contrary the customer is not defendable.

Original poster

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:15

I believe the job was expensive but didn't take longer than maybe 3 days, this is why staged payments probably weren't done. I know he will have taken a down payment but the outstanding invoice is significant

OP posts:

Oysterbabe · 27/09/2023 19:15

Work over 5k and no payment upfront? That sounds unusual. Surely a payment for materials or half the job would be expected.
Of course you can sue him for the cost, it's very straightforward.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2023 19:14

He should not be doing over £5k of work in a week without a significant deposit or staggered payments

Absolutely this

Nothing excuses the customer refusing to pay if the job's been done as agreed, but he really has left himself wide open to this

emark · 27/09/2023 19:13

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:07

His materials cannot be removed without leaving the property seriously compromised so that's not a possibility. I believe small claims has a max of £5000 and this exceeds that. Also very hard for the trades to win if the customer spins a tale of lies.

MCOL is £10,000
Evidence is key

Thebigblueballoon · 27/09/2023 19:13

Even if the work exceeds £5000, surely you can go after that? What scummy customers.

TomatoSandwiches · 27/09/2023 19:12

I'm trying to think of when I renovated our home and I'm sure that most of the trades we got in there was a deposit amount paid up front and then payments set at certain stages with about 30% left at the end.
What trade does your DH work in where he has to cover all materials and labour first?

Lorelaigilmore88 · 27/09/2023 19:12

Shocking behaviour. So sorry for you and DH. I need some work doing in my kitchen which is am not doing until the new year because I cant afford it until then! Some people have such a bloody nerve.

Mumsanetta · 27/09/2023 19:11

I do think your DH seriously needs to reconsider his payment structures as it sounds like this happens a lot. He should not be doing over £5k of work in a week without a significant deposit or staggered payments.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2023 19:11

He's right not to expect full payment upfront, but are they the sort of jobs where he could ask for staged payments as he goes along?

At least that way, if there was going to be a loss, it wouldn't be such a big one - and the risk of being left in a mess woith a job half done just might get people to pay

VisionsOfSplendour · 27/09/2023 19:09

I'm surprised there's a trade that doesn't ask for a good amount of the money up front and stage layments

If the small claima court is an option get on with filing in the forms

ladypenelopesfan · 27/09/2023 19:09

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:07

His materials cannot be removed without leaving the property seriously compromised so that's not a possibility. I believe small claims has a max of £5000 and this exceeds that. Also very hard for the trades to win if the customer spins a tale of lies.

If there are pictures of the finished work then surely there is no dispute that the work has been done?

I'd certainly go down the legal route.

Brefugee · 27/09/2023 19:09

Of course it's a possiblity. If the property is compromised, that is not your DHs problem.

SirCharlesRainier · 27/09/2023 19:09

Can he not insist on a %age upfront payment? And then staggered milestone payments? Front load it so that he's never working "out of pocket", and stop work the minute a payment is missed.

It might be that customers would be reluctant, but from what I've observed it's a seller's market - you can barely get tradesmen to turn up. So if he's a decent worker with a good reputation he should surely be able to find customers to agree to that.

Original poster

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:07

His materials cannot be removed without leaving the property seriously compromised so that's not a possibility. I believe small claims has a max of £5000 and this exceeds that. Also very hard for the trades to win if the customer spins a tale of lies.

OP posts:

Grumpyold · 27/09/2023 19:07

Yes, he should raise a claim in the small claims court.

ladypenelopesfan · 27/09/2023 19:07

CeaselesslyIntoThePast · 27/09/2023 19:05

In reality this is difficult and often not feasible without putting yourself at risk

Show quote history

I'm afraid you need legal advice on this one OP.

TomatoSandwiches · 27/09/2023 19:06

He must have some recourse, it may not be simple or easy but at least small claims, does he have a signed contract?

ladypenelopesfan · 27/09/2023 19:06

Freezingcoldinseptember · 27/09/2023 19:04

Can dh remove his work? As in guttering or whatever the job was?

If the work isn't paid for then it still belongs to the contractor/tradesperson.

I would send a letter saying if he doesn't pay you will remove the materials etc.

Original poster

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:06

autienotnaughty · 27/09/2023 19:03

Payment in advance? He could go small claims but would be time consuming

Sadly this isn't standard practice in his industry so customers would probably feel uncomfortable being asked to do so. Downpayments are sometimes done and I'm not sure whether one was paid in this case but the final invoice is not getting paid

OP posts:

CeaselesslyIntoThePast · 27/09/2023 19:05

SpicyNoodleSoup · 27/09/2023 19:04

What was the work? Can he remove the materials used? Seeing as though the customer hasn't paid then your DH still owns the materials and should take them back.

In reality this is difficult and often not feasible without putting yourself at risk