Trigger warning - rape?

That's not what I said.

I'm saying men can control themselves.

I'm also saying some Aroused men can be dangerous and cam choose selfishly not to stop themselves.

Why are you trying to make out that men can't control themselves? They absolutely can, they ALL can stop themselves from penetrating someone.

But OP does not say his penis 'brushed' her vagina. She says "slightly entering vagina".

She also says he "doesn't deny he did penetrate her".

If it's in, it's in.

It isn't seen the same though. Not by anyone.

This thread makes me sad. I'm sure this scenario has happened to me a few times.

Another thing to take into account is when a man is aroused and naked over a woman's body, his animal instincts begin to come into play which is to shove the penis into the vagina.

Better men can and should control themselves . I'm just thinking of two men that I was with that were a bit similiar.

One man said "I need to go inside". And the other man said to me "my body is telling me to do things to you that you don't want me to do".

Sex is risky. Some Aroused men I believe are often going to try as much as they can get away with . There are some good men who will stop and check no matter what.

I don't know why but this thread made me really sad. I'm sure many of us have been in the scenario op has described. It's a minefield out there

If it was a brushing of the lip rather than entering, it would be the same. Pushing into tje anus but not entering is the same. The body part is irrelevant. I'd describe it as attempted rape or sexual assault.

Agree that it doesn't matter what you call it. What happened still happened.

Guy is clearly a wrong in. There is no doubt that there was no consent to do that with an uncovered penis.

I’m curious if those saying he was pushing his luck, or that it’s not rape, would feel the same if he had put his penis in her mouth or anus? Where is that line drawn?

OP, regardless of what you decide to call it, in that moment he cared more about getting his needs met, than your consent, boundaries or preferences. You stopped existing as an equal human and became a sex object.

I ended a relationship for the same thing. I wasn’t articulate, or angry. My mind just sort of shut off when I thought of him, and I felt ill at the thought of being near him.

For those posters who are steadfast in their position (including you @BananaSlug 😂)

In 2019 a sex worker engaged in consensual sex with a punter. The sex was conditional upon the use of a condom. He removed the condom without her knowledge. This was tried in a court of law, and as her consent was conditional upon the use of a condom, he was found guilty of rape and sentenced to a 12 year prison term.

The law around consent is ever-developing. When my siblings were born, forced sexual activity within a marriage was legal (which is frankly astounding!).

If you have sons, please educate them on the law as it is in it's present form, rather than what you 'believe' it should be, otherwise they may find themselves serving a decade or more for something you don't even consider to be sexual assault.

I'm angry and appalled at some of the responses here. Since so many people have mentioned "stealthing", I can only hope that it's due to a lack of comprehension.

This was clearly not stealthing. OP had said she would only have penetrative sex with a condom. At that point there was no condom so there was never any expectation that the male would use a condom. Therefore there was no consent to penetrative sex. The boundaries were very clear.

Then there are those who say "he was only pushing his luck" or suggested OP might have changed her mind once they reached that point. Again, OP had clearly laid out the boundaries beforehand and male had agreed to those conditions. Even if we were to be incredibly generous with the benefit of doubt, it's really not difficult to take a couple of seconds to check with your partner before attempting to do something you'd agreed not to do.

Then there are those who are suggesting it wasn't rape because "he stopped when you asked him to". That doesn't delete the fact he'd already chosen to put his penis in her vagina, despite knowing she didn't consent. Perhaps it's easier to understand if we take the sexual aspect out of it. Let's say someone was tickling you and you didn't want them to so asked them to stop. They immediately stop. Does that mean they hadn't tickled you before you asked them to stop?

And then there are those who agree that there was intentional penetration without consent but think this wasn't rape because it wasn't rapey enough, or because OP went on to have consensual sex with the same person on a separate occasion. It's sad to see people still hold these beliefs.

OP, whatever feelings you have about this encounter are entirely valid. It was rape. You did nothing "wrong" and are not accountable for his actions. I'm sorry so many other posters suggest differently.

He penetrated you without your consent

it’s rape

People saying it isn’t rape say “ he STOPPED when asked “
HE HAD NO RIGHT OR CONSENT TO START wtaf 😳 No means no and yes he was trying his luck he knew what he was doing !

Penetration without consent is rape. Doesn't matter for how long or how deep.

You didn't consent to penetration without a condom. He penetrated you.

@BananaSlug I appreciate you don't think that this is rape (despite the legal definition suggesting otherwise and there being convictions for rape in the UK as a result of stealthing) but I want to know what you would consider rape to be.

Having been raped I would not consider this to be rape. But I would not have had sex with him the next day. Once he stopped I would have told him to leave and that would be the end of it.

I think it was definitely sexual assault verging on rape.
Yes you could say 'oh well he was trying it on & he stopped when asked' but he was pushing past your boundaries.
So you had consensual sex with a condom on - ie within your boundaries - doesn't count.
As the video says, in the morning you asked for tea & you drank it.
The night before however you specifically said you didn't want tea - you wanted coffee instead - but he was going to make you a cup of tea & drink it regardless of your choice.

He tried to grab your bag the next morning & he tried to push your boundaries the night before.
To me, these are very much red flags🚩 There could come a time when he ignores your boundaries & could get a bit rough as he does it.
I wouldn't see him again. The 'grabbing the bag' would've scared & I would be worried that the situation could've quite easily escalated.

Yes that is rape as it was penetrating and he knew your boundary around the condom.

Either way, wether it was rape or SA isn't the point as it is taking again from how it made you feel.

He ultimately ignored your boundaries to get what he wanted, which was P in V without a condom.

Penises don't really fall into vaginas so if he manually directed his penis into your vagina, then yes this is sexual assault as you had been clear you didn't want that. Penetration requires one being in a specific position as angles are involved and usually requires a hand or a look. There is intention as it is inserting a hard long body part into a small hole. If it was his penis rubbing against you without intentional penetration while you frolicked naked in bed and did other sexual things - then no.

Both might make you uncomfortable given your own concerns about the meds you were on but only one is sexual assault. Your feelings don't determine criminality.

This thread is so depressing...

OP it is perfectly fine to be confused and upset about what happened. I would say try to speak to someone to help you make sense of your emotions. There are some really good charities that run helpline and places you can go to to access emergency services after a sexual assault.

I had a story a bit similar to yours (trigger warning)

I started dated a male friend of 5 years and had had no concerns about his behaviour a this stage.

We initially had consensual sex for the first time and I insisted on a condom. The second time something just felt wrong and I asked him to stop, very clearly, twice, but he did not and just continued... I also realised he had removed the condom. I was left in tears. After that he just acted as normal as if nothing had happened.

I was left numb and frozen and actually stayed the night because my body and mind just could not comprehend what had just happened (that my friend who I had known for years had forced himself on me) and I felt trapped. I left early in the morning as soon as I knew the trains would be running again.

I blamed myself for having agreed to have sex with him in the first place.

It took me days to process it and I ended up in a sexual health clinic where a specialist trained nurse helped me understand that although the initial encounter had started as consensual the fact that he had not stopped what he was doing when I asked him too meant that it was assault and she told me about stealthing as well.

I know there is no way this would stand up in court but at least in my mind I know that what he did was wrong. Have yourself tested as well because unfortunately my rapist also gave me a common STD...

My definition of rape? Not this, not even close, not everything is rape like people want to make it into these days. And clearly many others agree it’s not.

@BananaSlug I'm curious what your definition of rape is, seeing as it clearly isn't penetration of the vagina (or mouth or anus) without consent. Does there have to be an element of violence? Threatening behaviour? Please explain.

I can't say if this is rape or not. Slightly pushing in, as the op said, can be thought of differently. I didn't understand it to mean penetration, but I was not there.

The idea that it's not rape because she had sex again is nonsense.

So you'd have consensual sex with someone who you considered raped you. Really? I sure as damn well wouldn't and he would not be staying the night either.

That's not how rape works.

For example, wives don't immediately divorce their husbands if he puns her down and forces himself on her. She might stay and have sex again another time.

If a violent stranger pulls you into an alley yes. Someone you know? Things aren't that simple.

Absolutely not rape or even sexual assault. I would say most women I know have experienced something like this, it’s called trying his luck. You had sex with him after so couldn’t have been that traumatic.

@MisschiefMaker
''If he wanted to rape you he wouldn't have stopped when you said no.''

She had clearly said no to penetration without a condom. That did not stop him from doing just that.

So you'd have consensual sex with someone who you considered raped you. Really? I sure as damn well wouldn't and he would not be staying the night either.