Just restrict dogs over a certain weight/size?

Leash and muzzles, just had a big dog try to attack my little one yesterday. We had a gorgeous doberman, soft as anything, but were still always responsible and aware she may scare people, stereotypes etc. It's the type of owners who cause the problems, untrained, too strong, blasé oh they won't bite...

I have huge dogs I would support a muzzle law when out in public. Its not detrimental to a dog if you train them to it. And it's easier to identify the flipping scallys.

Dog owners are registered via the legally required micro chip in our dogs also via our vets and our insurers. We also are legally required to tag our dogs with our name and address. It's not Betty and her geriatric Irish setter who do all the above you need to worry about, it's finding a way to make people do it who just don't and who have complete disregard for the law these are the people with the out of control dogs.

but with so many people on here calling for licensing, (and to be fair, I am one of them) we still haven't addressed the fundamental question - who will pay to enforce it? And how do you enforce it?

After all, the drug dealer with an XL bully mentioned above can perfectly easily get a license and his dog can still be dangerous.

Unless you bring in very specific things attached to that license, and unless you have the power to enforce it, then licensing is not going to help.

It is. But we all know it's not going to happen.

I was listening to a radio show earlier and someone called in saying that during and post Covid 'drug dealers on his estate transitioned to XL breeders' and that box rooms had turned into puppy farms and the worst of the worst were breeding these dogs and producing huge litters...

The horse has bolted and the stable door can't be shut plus we simply don't have the government capable of enacting any meaningful change and proper legislation. It won't be a priority with any new government either.

It is grim and I suspect many more maulings and deaths will happen because these dogs seem to overwhelmingly be in the wrong hands.

It's tricky. You can't just go by size. A study looking at the 238 deaths by dogs in the US over a 20 year period and Pit Bulls and Pit bull mixes killed the vast majority at 66, are about a third bigger than our Staffies. Rottweilers next at 39, who are bigger, German Shepherds 17, Huskies 15, Makamutes 12, Dobermans 9, Chow Chow (not big) 8,. @zingally - St Bernards and Great Danes tied at 7. But labradors and lab mixes are responsible for 5, and West Highland Terrier and Cocker one each. And a few others.
Males over 6 times more likely, entire males 2.6 times more likely.
24% were unrestrained off owners property. 58% unrestrained on owners property. 17% were restrained on owners property. 1% restrained off owners property.
She it doesn't really seem that keeping digs in public over X size is the answer. But licensing digs and charging far more for entire dogs. More designated dog parks.
But the vast majority of fatalities occurs in the owners home - how can that be prevented?

Licenses would be far more effective.

I have a large breed bully. Not an XL American, but a similar type. Although I have breed papers, and am a responsible owner, the fear amongst myself and other owners is palpable, because 100's of non pit bull dogs are seized and pts every year because of 'looks'.

It's fucking sad that bad owners with bite sleeves and backyard crossbreeds mean I'm now scared for my dogs.

No.... it was a neighbours dog.
It strangely hasn't put him off dogs and we foster for one of the local rescues .... we've had all sorts of dogs stay with us for extended periods of time and most have been brilliant even if they didn't have much training.... only dog that wa ever a problem was a friends dachshund who was to stay with us for some weeks and we lasted one night.... it was savage and bit us .... drew blood etc... we were terrified to move.... friend has since done doggy training classes etc...

I grew up with a 14 stone Irish wolfhound who was giant even by breed standard. He was scared of his own shadow, never ever showed aggression (worst security ever) and let the kitten we had eat out of his food bown when he gave him a swipe as he was too daft to know what to do instead.

Also to those saying that a Jack Russel size dog couldn't kill an adult you're probably right, but they're about the same size as a newborn and could do untold damage if not properly supervised and a new born hasn't got the ability to move out of harm's way.

I don't know how I feel about the ban on XL Bully's, I think the problem is there are already people out there who have them for status and who can't control them and there have already been several deaths attributed to the type of dog. For every gentle giant there's x number of dogs bred and raised for attack, whereas you don't get that with wolfhounds st Bernards etc. But then of course any big dog could snap, any size dog could. Cats scratch and bite too, a large boa could crush someone.

Banning dogs on size is not a fair course of action but I would support licensing.

Legal bans of guns and knives don't make a huge impact? Why does America have such higher rates of gun violence than we do? Don't you think tighter legislation on gun ownership would reduce it?

We don't have zero gun crime here, and we do have knife crime of course but we have less of both than if guns and knives were legalised. A breed ban would be much more effective in conjunction with other measures - licensing, leash and muzzle requirements, education and training - rather than as a standalone measure, but as it stands if your neighbour carries a knife or a gun then you can report them. If they have an xl bully, you can't. And if that dog decides to attack, it really will do a lot more damage than a small dog because as we've seen it takes numerous grown men to try to pull one of these off its victim whereas an adult can pick up a chihuahua and kick it over a wall if they want. If you had to choose between being attacked by a vicious chihuahua with its prey drive activated or a vicious xl bully with its prey drive activated you know very well you'd pick the chi. And you'd walk alway from the encounter too. Don't try to pretend that's not true because it really doesn't help the argument!

That’s largely already the case if a dog is being cared for properly isn’t it?Specifically XL’s can cost a couple of thousand then you have vets bills for vaccinations, dental care, spaying if required and ongoing insurance , food, training. I certainly couldn’t afford to keep a dog and wouldn’t be prepared to restructure my budget to be able to do so.

I don’t think there’s an argument that there should an inherent right to own an animal.

There should be designated areas for dogs to run around I agree but I don’t think ALL large fields, parks or forests should automatically be that.

As things stands I actively avoid parks and Forrests due to the fear of dogs jumping up at me. If I had kids it would be especially annoying to have to avoid parks. I pay a lot of Council tax and it annoys me that parks are basically no go areas for me.

There needs to be beaches, parks etc for people to walk freely without fear of dogs running around or even dogs there at all, because where dogs are allowed - especially off leash - there is inevitably some owners who don’t clean up which makes walking a much less pleasant expedience.

perhaps not allowing those who don’t have a private garden to own dogs would be a start too. I live in the 4th floor of a flat building and I find it bizarre there are dog owners on my floor.

Lovely gentle giants, or not, I was absolutely terrified of big dogs, as a child. The Great Dane near us was the stuff of nightmares for me…

This is MN... home of some batshit comments about dogs. I have my bingo card ready. Some people on other threads have called for council/HA to ban dogs in their properties. Other comments I have seen have said dog owners have dogs because they are socially inept with fellow humans. Another saying that if a owner fails to pick up a poo, their dog should be seized and PTS.
And the best... it should be legal to carry guns and knives to protect against dogs. Madness!

That's an absurd idea and completely impractical. By that system a slender pit bull could be fine but a fat labrador not. Better to enforce microchipping and bring in a breeding licence. Any dogs not owned and registered by a licensed breeder must be spayed/neutered.

Fairer, easier to enforce and would help ensure that dogs with poor or unstable temperament, irrespective of breed, are not bred from which will gradually improve the gene pool.

Honestly I think it’s just easier to define what an XL Bully is and ban them before they mail more people.

This seems the most balanced and proportionate response on the whole thread.

That’s awful @Socksey was it a family dog who attacked your partner?

Not a doggy person at all but I find toy poodles particularly cute and wouldn’t have room for a bigger dog so it’s the one dog I have even vaguely considered although haven’t looked seriously into it .

There are some very gentle big breeds as other have mentioned, I do think people should be allowed a dog that they can’t physically control though. My neighbour has a number of German shepherd’s that she has no control over, I see her attempt to walk them and they drag her up the road whilst barking, apparently one attacked another dog and she was unable to stop it. TBH German Shepards are one of the few breeds I am weary of (along with Doberman’s and XL bully’s). Some dogs are just not meant to be pets, they are bred for working. People shouldn’t be able to just go out and buy a dog without knowing about the breed and without knowing what goes into training and exercising it. Sadly a lot of these big dogs have had no training and are often cooped up in flats and not wales enough.

Obviously not killed but in this case permanently disfigured.... my 55yo DH has scars across his face from a toy poodle attack when he was 2.
Impact on him long term is that while he doesn't care much about his appearance, it hates him look quite thuggish and has cost him more senior jobs.
I certainly feel that all dog owners should be required to have their dogs licenced and properly trained.... all dogs

So only the rich will be allowed family dogs?

Just like @newhere24 I have large/giant dogs and would be happy to comply.

If it stops one more person being killed, or one more child being torn apart I would muzzle and register mine in a heartbeat. I would welcome them being assessed if it meant everyone else’s badly trained and aggressive would also assessed and removed from society. Not because I believe mine would hurt someone, but if it makes it easier to police the idiots by putting on a blanket ban then I have no problem with it. In the long run, it would probably benefit most of us to get rid of the bad and untrained, big or small.

The problem being the idiots won’t comply, they will shout and tantrum about how the world is so unfair on social media rather than thinking ‘yep, I’ve made a potentially dangerous choice, what can I do to make sure my dog does not join those statistics. How can I actively prove I’m responsible enough to own a dog with the potential it has’

At the end of the day, anyone owning such a drivey powerful dog needs to accept they made that choice, I didn’t make the choice to have to encounter it nor do I want to either (although I work with dogs so have 0 choice sadly for me)

My dogs won’t care if they are muzzled or not because they are well trained, gentle and will accept anything I ask of them without question.

. I have met some xl bully’s and they have been some of the most gentle giants I have ever met, BUT they have had excellent training and owners who aware of how much work the breed needs to be a good family pet. I have also met a couple of owners of xl bully’s who have no clue and have bought them as some kind of statement dog - these owners are the problem. All dog breeds should have owners who are willing to put the hard work in with any dog they choose to own big or small.

Agree mostly with this. One of the reasons I don't have a dog is that I think I'm too lazy/not motivated to invest the time in training it properly and walking it adequately. And that would be unfair to the dog itself, and unfair to anyone else we came across.
Although I do think there is more risk with the very large dogs, even well trained ones, that if they are spooked or scared, and might become aggressive, it would be almost impossible to overpower a dog that was 10 stone for example.

Agreed. Far more needs to be done. This is a reactionary mode that doesn’t tackle the whole problem.

My neighbours medium sized poodle mix (maybe a cockapoo) came barrelling at me and jumped at me which was not only frightening but it actually scratched me through my trousers. And I’m supposed to be ok with that?

sure it wouldn’t have killed me but it could still have injured and even scarred me. Were i wearing shorts it would have broken my skin for sure.

I was able to speak up for myself and tell her to make sure her dog didn’t touch me again and then report her to the housing manager when she refused to put her dog on a lead but not everyone is able to advocate for themselves and nor should they have to.

We need to look to countries like Germany to see how they handle dog ownership.

It's not as easy as that. A St. Bernard X boxer could easily look like a lean XL bully without being related to them or have the same temperament. The only real way to tell is by DNA.