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Original poster

Nut free schools

86 replies

JustACountryMusicLoverInCowboyBoots · 10/09/2023 21:14

I we've just had the back to school reminder that our school is nut free and that 10% of the pupils have severe allergies requiring an epipen. Pupils are not allowed anything containing nuts or seeds or that may contain them like cereal bars. No hummus etc.

My question is what happens when children with severe allergies go to high school where there are no such policies (not at the high schools that our primary feeds into anyway) and it would be more difficult to police? What happens at college and in the work place? What if a child has Nutella at breakfast or seeded toast or similar and has residue on their clothes or skin?

Severe allergies can be fatal so I understand school's stance. It's impossible to eradicate the risk completely so is it a case of minimising as much as possible? That brings me back to what happens at high school etc though?

Snacks have to be fruit or vegetables for break although many take in cereal bars despite the weekly reminders in the newsletter. My child has school dinners just in case anyone thinks I'm saying the rule is ridiculous.

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FloweryName · 12/09/2023 12:11

I used to work in a school that claimed to be but free. It wasn’t though, despite numerous emails and reminders in the newsletter etc.

All it takes is for the parent (or a grandparent) who doesn’t do the school admin to be making the packed lunch one day. We’d often find children with peanut butter or Nutella sandwiches or those little convenience packs of apple and peas it butter.

bruffin · 12/09/2023 11:52

Whinge · 12/09/2023 09:50

So technically he's still at risk as a student could take peanuts into school?

Show quote history

@bellamae1
Your reaction of saying "it is a good thing" shows just how bad an idea it really is. Your DS will end up with a false sense of security which is dangerous. My DS has treenut and seed allergies , none of his schools had a nut ban, never was a problem.
Also see the research i linked to above, nutbans do not make schools safe

Whinge · 12/09/2023 09:50

bellamae1 · 12/09/2023 09:42

My son has a serious peanut allergy and he's just started high school and they've sent a message out to parents that nuts are not allowed in school which is good a thing

So technically he's still at risk as a student could take peanuts into school?

Iwanderedlonelyasagoat · 12/09/2023 09:48

@BoringConstance the school might not be legally liable, but no school would want an 11 year to die as a result of something which happened at school.

bellamae1 · 12/09/2023 09:42

My son has a serious peanut allergy and he's just started high school and they've sent a message out to parents that nuts are not allowed in school which is good a thing

TraybakeQueen · 12/09/2023 08:58

With regard to peanut allergy the big differences between primary and secondary for my DC were,
allergy kit is kept with DC not in the office,

school has its own adrenaline pens kept in the canteen and student support,

way more places to eat including outdoor areas,

BoringConstance · 12/09/2023 08:40

Iwanderedlonelyasagoat · 12/09/2023 07:05

I work in a secondary school and we are nut free. As PP said above though they don't ban may contain and there's stuff I'm sure the kids bring in lunch boxes which they don't have in the canteen (eg jar pesto - canteen make their own with no pine nuts and so it's veggie). Kids so need to learn to manage their own allergies, but id you ended up with one of the ones with a very severe allergy sat next to someone eating a peanut butter sandwich my understanding is that that would be pretty bad. I have sat at a desk at work before near someone with a severe nut allergy and it was important we didn't eat nuts in the office. Technically we weren't allowed them anyway as "nut free school". So people mentioning the workplace, sometimes you might not exactly need rules as an adult, but it can be really important to respect the health of your colleagues!

Our school doesn't have the same rules with seeds, sesame and stuff. For example some of the packaged sandwiches they make do have hummus in them. And often they add seeds to stuff in lieu of nuts I think. There is a big sheet with all the other allergens that the kids need to check available in the canteen. Presumably in primary that level of self regulation is a bit beyond them.

A friend working in another school had a situation where sixth formers were selling homemade cookies with nuts in them for charity and a boy grabbed one without checking and nearly died. Incidents like this means schools have to be really really careful. They are liable for these incidents. The occurrence of nut allergies in the population has risen a lot I believe, which I think makes it hard to grasp for lots of people who are a bit older (I,can't remember anyone when I grew up with a nut allergy). But I can tell you from all the trip paperwork etc I've done as a teacher that is is now very very common!

How can the school be liable for the impulsive behaviour of a teenager? That's 100% on him.
Schools should be responsible for incidents they can prevent, such as peanut dust left on surfaces, airborne etc but if someone chooses to stuff their face with no regard to their own health it's not their fault, as much as parents are always looking to assign blame. That's not how the real world will work as well!

sjj28358 · 12/09/2023 08:28

Unless they police every lunchbox and every blazer pocket, I don't believe any school is really nut free.

For one thing, a majority of cereal bars - a real lunch box staple - have peanuts or almonds in them and I just don't believe that most parents (whose kids don't have an allergy) would even stop to consider it, let alone read the back of the packet for hidden ingredients.

The high school I work at is supposedly nut free, but it's really not. We don't serve or sell nut containing items on the premises, but the older pupils are allowed to go out the the parade of shops adjacent so if they want to buy nuts or nut-containing items they will do it; we don't stand on the gate checking their purchases.

Whinge · 12/09/2023 08:15

DrMarshaFieldstone · 12/09/2023 08:08

I would further bet that if it's anything like most other primary schools, a lovely tray of allergens in cartons is brought into the classroom every morning for the children to have with their fruit.

A total ban on all serious allergens is completely impossible. I doubt they even eliminate the fourteen main ones. Gluten? Eggs? All fish?

Show quote history

Yep, and those cartons will often spill on the floor and will be disposed of in a bin (usually still mostly full) which will be sat in the classroom until the end of the day.

I would love to see @Wehavealaughdontwe school menu, and discuss how a school has managed to ban all allergens that can cause anaphylaxis, because I don't believe any school does this. Like you say, it's impossible.

bruffin · 12/09/2023 08:13

Hiddenvoice · 12/09/2023 07:55

Primary school aged children will not be able to manage their allergies as well as an adult.
Our bake sales, school discos etc all have the same nut free policy and parents are asked to make sure their baked goods don’t contact any nut traces.

Our feeder high school is also nut free. One high school pupil had a severe reaction based on nuts and it changed everything. The high school students are actually very vigil about it now.

My husbands work place is also nut free but most aren’t because adults are able to manage their allergies and know the symptoms to look out for.

Schools in Canada which were nut free had a higher incidence of hospitalisations from reactions than those that werent nut free!
https://ctajournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13601-015-0055-x 5% of hospital admissions were from nutfree daycare/nursery/schools and only 3.9% were from similar that allowed nuts
More Research on Nutfree schools

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5638466/

Accidental exposures to peanut in a large cohort of Canadian children with peanut allergy - Clinical and Translational Allergy

Background We previously estimated that the annual rate of accidental exposure to peanut in 1411 children with peanut allergy, followed for 2227 patient-years, was 11.9% (95% CI, 10.6, 13.5). This cohort has increased to 1941 children, contributing 458...

https://ctajournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13601-015-0055-x

ThanksItHasPockets · 12/09/2023 08:09

People genuinely don't see the difference between 'nut free' and 'ban on nuts', do they?

ThanksItHasPockets · 12/09/2023 08:08

Thanks @Prescottdanni123. I really appreciate your explanation.

DrMarshaFieldstone · 12/09/2023 08:08

Whinge · 12/09/2023 07:24

It is much easier to make a total ban on serious allergens (those which cause a risk of anaphylaxis to anyone in our school)

And yet i'm willing to bet milk and dairy products aren't banned?

I would further bet that if it's anything like most other primary schools, a lovely tray of allergens in cartons is brought into the classroom every morning for the children to have with their fruit.

A total ban on all serious allergens is completely impossible. I doubt they even eliminate the fourteen main ones. Gluten? Eggs? All fish?

PurpleWisteria1 · 12/09/2023 08:05

My DD secondary is also nut free

Prescottdanni123 · 12/09/2023 07:59

@ThanksItHasPockets

Yeah we are technically not 100% nut free - it is impossible to be especially by the time they get to secondary school - but we do enough to get a 'nut free' status.

Kids on packed lunches eat in the assembly hall during wet break, and then it is mopped, chairs and tables wiped down like in the normal dinner hall.

Hiddenvoice · 12/09/2023 07:55

Primary school aged children will not be able to manage their allergies as well as an adult.
Our bake sales, school discos etc all have the same nut free policy and parents are asked to make sure their baked goods don’t contact any nut traces.

Our feeder high school is also nut free. One high school pupil had a severe reaction based on nuts and it changed everything. The high school students are actually very vigil about it now.

My husbands work place is also nut free but most aren’t because adults are able to manage their allergies and know the symptoms to look out for.

Catsbreakfast · 12/09/2023 07:53

JustACountryMusicLoverInCowboyBoots · 10/09/2023 22:37

I think nuts and seeds are quite easy to avoid having at school. Not all people will realise that products do contain tracées of nuts or have seeds in them. Look at how bags of peanuts have to declare that they contain nuts! I'm sure I've read that there are people that don't realise Nutella contains nuts. If there were fatal milk/fish/egg/soya/ allergies then it would be impossible to manage.

Peanuts are not nuts in an allergy sense, they are legumes. People allergic to walnuts, hazelnuts etc might not have issues with peanuts and viceversa. Hence the disclaimer.

BogRollBOGOF · 12/09/2023 07:51

And I haven't forgotten the fear of being around swarming toddlers shedding allergens left, right and centre. I still picture the one allowed to roam around playgroup, scoffing cake (full allergen bingo) and dropping chunks of it all over the community room and toys, and helicoptering toddler DS so he didn't pick it up and eat it.

There's a limit in how far you can micromanage others though.

FlamboMango · 12/09/2023 07:50

I remember looking round a secondary school last year with DS in a small group tour when one of the parents asked how did they police their nut free policy. Teacher was confused and politely informed mum there wasn’t a nut free policy. Mum was absolutely incredulous and couldn’t understand what teacher was saying….. kept saying “but you MUST ban nuts, this is a school!” “But my child is very allergic to nuts!” Getting more and more panicky as I think it was dawning on her that her kid was going to have to be in this environment.
Teacher was lovely but Mum just literally cycled through loads of phases in front of us, from puzzlement to panic to anger, and in the end stormed out screaming she would have to home school.

BogRollBOGOF · 12/09/2023 07:44

DS had moderate allergies to milk, eggs and soya which was incredibly restrictive. I was very well trained in checking labels. Some people will need to be careful of "may contain" warnings if their allergy is particularly sensitive and severe, but banning them in general is unnecessarily restrictive and unhealthy. It also significantly takes away options for others with restricted diets.

I can't guarentee that anything in my kitchen is truely free of any trace of nut, especially the crisps and snacks stored in a cupboard where there are packs of nuts. I'm happy to oblige with not sending in products actively containing nuts, and when one DS was younger and had a nut-allergic classmate, I made sure to clean his face and hands thouroughly if he ate something containing nuts at breakfast.

Whinge · 12/09/2023 07:43

@ConfusedBear I was replying to @Wehavealaughdontwe, but I would also be interested in seeing a meal plan as it's just not possible to eliminate all the allergens

I suspect they mean their school only bans nuts, and I would be very surprised if they actually banned other allegens such as dairy, hence my post.

ConfusedBear · 12/09/2023 07:38

Whinge · 12/09/2023 07:24

It is much easier to make a total ban on serious allergens (those which cause a risk of anaphylaxis to anyone in our school)

And yet i'm willing to bet milk and dairy products aren't banned?

Out of interest, what meals do you serve which don't contain any allergens with a risk of causing anaphylaxis?

Neolara · 12/09/2023 07:33

megletthesecond · 12/09/2023 07:05

just DS has an epi-pen and he simply never eats anything from a bake sale and avoids homemade food if he isn't sure about the household.

This.

My DD has peanut allergy and is now 14. She checks absolutely every "unknown" food herself and has done so from about the age of 6. It just becomes habit. Her secondary school is not nut free but this feels safe and manageable. Totally different to primary where she needed others to keep her safe, particularly in lower years.

Incidentally, in secondary, she carries her epipens around with her at all times. They are not stored in a central office. And the doctor recommended that we show her friends how to use them, just in case.

Whinge · 12/09/2023 07:24

It is much easier to make a total ban on serious allergens (those which cause a risk of anaphylaxis to anyone in our school)

And yet i'm willing to bet milk and dairy products aren't banned?

Wehavealaughdontwe · 12/09/2023 07:22

I work in a school and we take allergies very seriously. It is much easier to make a total ban on serious allergens (those which cause a risk of anaphylaxis to anyone in our school) than to frantically to try wash the faces and hands of 30 4 year olds whilst they are trying to run off into the yard, before they touch any surfaces, door handles etc. It makes it safer and takes away most of the risk