Poor Mark Watson…

He picked memoir
Exactly. He did have a choice given he was initially asked to write a book about his experience as a comic/the comedy world. He could have kept it to that rather than weaving in a death theme.

From what I've read on Audible (they have an offer atm but I've already had a free trial in the last 12 months), it's not strictly autobiographical, comic or self-help as such but a hodgepodge of them all/shifts tonally. Mark himself is selling it as "a bit memoir/a bit self-help/a work in progress but a darker proposition than most."

You reap what you sow - the daily mail headline this afternoon was not optimal for his family. You may consider him open/honest/brave. Others might think differently. I've no idea how his ex feels about his work. I'd still be unhappy with his moaning on stage after our divorce (when I knew he'd cheated on me while pregnant) but that's projecting. I think many call into question the integrity of anyone who can do that. As for an impossibly heavy burden of guilt - not so heavy you can't keep up the deceit for three years and mention your tough divorce in your act. It's somewhat egotistical but we can agree to disagree.

I haven't read the book so not sure how helpful it will be to others: the Guardian reviewer took something from it.
For me, comedians' autobiographies sometimes tend to be fan fodder/Xmas cash grab/ toilet books/self-indulgent purging. I've been given for Xmas...Peter Kay/Frankie Boyle/Russell Brand/David Mitchell/Jonathan Ross/Sue Perkins/Graham Norton/Frank Skinner and Simon Amstell's. Some fare better than others.

I suspect the sympathy is lacking because after he exploded his marriage (an affair of three years will do that) it's become about his feelings in the fallout.

Who else’s feelings should his memoir be about though ?

He has to earn a living. He has children to support as well as his own self. His comedy work mostly dried up, or stopped paying so well. He can write. He picked memoir given he had recently been through some “interesting times”.

If he leaves out the parts that make him look awful he risks the press revealing them, but if he leaves them in he is monetising them. The latter still looks more appealing than risking a red top expose to me. At least you have some kind of control over when these bad deeds come under a spotlight. From the link above I got the impression he was now on good terms with his ex-wife and involved in his children’s lives. Which means presumably he ran it past her, if not get her actual blessing.

People do shitty, shitty things. They use suicide not only to emotionally blackmail, they also perform it successfully, in the most gruesome way, with an unsuspecting audience selected for lifelong trauma via witnessing it. But, so far based on the reviews and the new stories I read, his account of coming uncomfortably close to suicide is not one of exerting control or punishing with “look what you made me do!”. It seems to be much more along the lines of I’ve achieved nothing but hurt and pain for the people I was supposed to protect from the world.

I’ve experienced the pain of spousal and parental infidelity. I’d pick being punched in the face repeatedly over ever feeling that pain again. If nothing else broken bones and bruises heal much much faster than a wounded soul. If it hurts so intensely to be on that end of it, what might be the weight of the guilt at having inflicted that on your wife and children ? It’s so destructive it may feel impossibly heavy for some people.

I’m not sure I’d feel the same way about his book were I still so near the pain of infidelity. But I’ve had a lot of time to process it. So I’m at a point where any life that can be saved, any hope that can be spread, any “you are not alone” that can proffered, has to be better than not.

John Robins' shows are always about his mental health. He also does a lot for men's mental health campaigns and charities.

I suspect the sympathy is lacking because after he exploded his marriage (an affair of three years will do that) it's become about his feelings in the fallout.
I have no doubt he felt suicidal.
There's no such thing as bad publicity so goes the adage - I've spent more time looking at his book coming out and its content than I would have done before this thread.
Maybe it should come down - report it if you wish - if someone has their self-esteem tied up in their job and is vulnerable to criticism/reproach then I'd imagine it's going to be hard to read.

In fairness, playing James Acaster's advocate, if you are writing about failures and disappointments and you're writing about your life, you'll include everything warts and all. I still think I'd have excluded my divorce out of respect to my ex if I could have.

I loved I am, I am, I am by Maggie O'Farrell about near-death experiences.
That was compelling. Can really recommend it.
I also read Simon Amstell's Help. That was a little self-indulgent/navel gazing but it was interesting alongside his career.

I have no idea whether 8 deaths is any good or not. It was an audible audiobook in its first incarnation in 2021. He says that was more optimistic. Perhaps some of the book was omitted the first time before the rewrite.

In theory - as I like reading about comedy (and it is interesting in itself how comedians talk about bombing/dying or killing it on stage), I am interested in reality TV/how TV production works; and I feel like a failure a lot of the time/impostor syndrome - I am the demographic for this memoir.

Deaths/failures (dying on stage in Maidstone/nearly dying on Bear Gryll's The Island/novels-ideas etc dying a death/being fired by his agent/being in competition with his peers/divorce - suicidal ideation) I can see how/why he's included the latter but it's nonetheless a risk you take to reveal the personal. At least he didn't do Strictly to promote the book, paps would have picked over the bones even more than on here.

Well there's been comments about suicide bating and how "funny how it's only after the fact he's claiming to be suicidal so yeah, plenty of posters have an issue with his claims of his feelings.

Agree the new stats on young women are shocking

His kids are top end of primary school so they will/people in their class (the parents!) will definitely be reading this.

I think he's managed to damage his own reputation and 'likeability' factor here - it's just gross.

I don't think the issue posters had was a man feeling suicidal and those feelings coming from poor decision-making. More that he has monetised it.

This, 100%. I sympathise with anyone who has felt suicidal, even if those feelings were largely due to the consequences of their own choices. He has every right to talk about his Mental Health, but exposing details of his affair for financial and professional gain when there are kids involved is every bit as selfish as the affair itself. He claims to be remorseful for hurting his ex wife, his children and the OW but that hasn't stopped him from dredging it all up again in order to cash in.

I don't think the issue posters had was a man feeling suicidal and those feelings coming from poor decision-making. More that he has monetised it.
He isn't the first or last to do so. Many Fringe shows have raised the question of Is it comedy? of late (as the trend has been to have trauma as the theme).
Avital Ash's show was heart breaking. I have no idea why Mark has written a memoir containing information about his infidelity rather than just a book about dying on stage. if I were his ex I'd be asking why he felt he needed to do all that now, while the children are still at school.

I also think that many here are also too aware of men who threaten suicide as coercive control, men who hide behind "Be Kind" as a defence against criticism of toxic behaviour, as well as cases of family annihilation.

That isn't to say that male mental health/suicidal ideation should be covered up/hidden or deemed lesser. Suicidal ideation is frightening. It's been a massive topic for a while now (hence CALM/STOP/Project 84) as the stats still show 79 men killing themselves a week.

Male suicides have consistently been higher than female although the recent report shows women under 24 having the largest increase.

In 2021, there were 5,583# suicides registered in England and Wales, consistent with the pre-coronavirus pandemic rates in 2019 and 2018 (#and including deaths that occurred in 2020 subsequently registered in 2021 owing to disruption to coroners’ inquests). The fall in the suicide rate in 2020 was likely to have been driven by a decrease in male suicides at the start of the coronavirus pandemic, and delays in death registrations because of the pandemic.
Around three-quarters of suicides were males, consistent with long-term trends.
Among females, the age-specific suicide rate was highest in those aged 45 to 49 years, while among males it was highest in those aged 50 to 54 years.

Females aged 24 years or under have seen the largest increase in the suicide rate since our time series began in 1981

Thank you. I’m doing really well now. I was lucky. Going onto HRT pulled me into a fast 180.

But now I’m well again I’m a bit shaken and stirred about how intense things get when it goes beyond ideation. The experience really challenged many of my assumptions. I’ve managed ideation for decades, t was like having a persistence ingrown toenail. Just in my head, not on my foot. So I thought I had a really good insight into the topic in general.

Not even close. There was a whole nother level I knew fuck all about. Where you can’t trust your own head not to try and take down your body, while the real you (the soul? your consciousness ?) is desperately pulling levers… but you can’t stop it.

Whoever it is, for whatever reason they feel that way, whatever they have done to think they don’t deserve help, I hope people get the message help is still what they and their loved ones need despite what the inside of their head is saying differently. And I hope we create more places and spaces where it can be offered.

Hope you're doing it better x

Yes we need more men admitting to feelin suicidal and it being accepted than men hiding it because they're be ridiculed for making it up.

So on Danish Reddit you have loads of famous-in-Denmark/Danish male comedians' names being bandied about as the subject of Sofie's set. I know she says she likes gossip but that's hilarious, creating a show that can be performed in different countries with different suspects in each one. Should really just name names or call your show Pitchfork. Problem with comedy delved from real life experience being how much is true/how much is embroidered.

Similar to Huw Edwards really. His previous 'mental health problems' didn't stop him from having a pretty full on job.

That's depressing: I'd always quite liked him. Still, if someone lies about being Welsh for half their career it shouldn't be surprising that they lie about other things too.
I hope he feels more cheerful soon. It is more than a bit pants for him to blame his bad behaviour on disappointment and depression, but, still, we all fuck up a bit and deserve a bit of compassion.

Being suicidal at point in your life is always going to be a better outcome than attempting it.

I think people are being glib about an aspect of the human mind that can be terrifying to experience. It does not impact only “good” people who have never made any awful choices.

The last thing many want to do is confess that things have taken a dark turn and their attachment to life is fraying. I remember shame, fear & reluctance, in case saying out loud would take away my opportunity to do it. I think the shame also played a role in making me think there was no merit in mentioning it, that because I was so close to it I was faulty and what is the point of wasting worry and effort on “seconds”.

I can immagine it must have been a good harder to say it out loud, let alone publicly, when there is some very obvious finger pointing that can happen. Maybe it is a good thing he chose to say it anyway. Perhaps he’ll be able to reach a section of the public who might be extra inclined to believe they don’t deserve saving on top of the usual amount of feeling worthless.

Sofie Hagen was "the other woman": Had an affair with well-known comedian | SEE and HEAR (seoghoer.dk)

Tbh how many famous comedians in the UK could stop a gig in Copenhagen?!
Also, is an emotional affair still an affair?

As to Sofie Hagen, the whole 5 year emotional affair with an unnamed comedian is weird as.

From Tattle: "a huge part of the ‘Banglord’ show that’s Sofie is currently touring is around the premise that she hasn’t had sec in 7.5 years. For the first 5 years of that timeline she was ‘dating’ a well-known comedian who had a girlfriend. Sofie said they would lie next to each other in bed but never had sex, and he’d always give reasons to have sex soon but not that night. How anyone would put up with that for 5 years is beyond me.
She also said that the girlfriend found out he was having an affair with someone else (a 16 year old fan) and confided in Sofie about it."

Also from Tattle:
Taskmaster ‘came last’ but could be a red herring
Had a girlfriend but not married
On the BBC sometimes
Has a podcast

Mark Watson came second on Taskmaster and is married.

Sofie has also mentioned a comedian she was in love with on a dirty talk podcast, who treated her awfully, happily did degrading sex talk and took blow jobs but not the nicest guy.

Am amazed that Me Too only took out Louis CK in the comedy world (and to some degree Aziz Ansari) as there are several wankers on the circuit allegedly.

But he's not battering away any questions (cos it's a biography).

He hasn't said oh I was so suicidal sex with the OW was my only choice.

He conceded it was about his ego, that he hurt the people he cared about, no suggestion it wasn't his fault. He admits it was about making HIM feel better.
But of course he HAS to be making up his MH issues (despite clear evidence of poor confidence and self opinion, which would all tie on with feelings of shocked when he was eventually rumbled as a fake) because any man who doesn't something wrong (and let's face it, he was an utter shit) is evil and cannot be remorseful.

See, you did it wrong. Rather than actually taking the OD, you should've given a long and self-pitying interview to a national newspaper in which you used your suicidality as a weapon to batter away any real or imaginary questions or criticisms.

Did you continue to do it for three years before realising it was bad, though?

(Sorry to sound flippant - I'm really sorry you felt that way and did that - if anything does that not highlight the difference between a one-off and consistent, repeated, long-term wrongdoing?)

You don't think the reality of realising you've screwed up your life is enough to make people suicidal?

I was 22 when I went out on a drunken night out with a friend. Woke up in his bed, clear we'd had sex. I had a fiance. Long story short I went home and took an overdose because I hated myself so much and I thought it was better to be dead than have to deal with the fall out. But clearly it was all just part of being a pathetic waste of space according to many on here

234vhh
Does anyone have a link to Sunday times Mark Watson article without a paywall? : r/nomorejockeys (reddit.com)

Here you go.
Now, in fairness, it doesn't go into great detail and just states what he did. Whether he realised that meant Daily Mail would pick up on it, no idea, maybe he thought he wasn't big enough name for anyone to care. Rough on the kids though.

As to Katherine Ryan, in June she said there is what she considers to be an abuser working in the television industry during an interview with fellow comic Sara Pascoe, who she says is also aware of the man's identity.
Pascoe also revealed that she had reported a male celebrity to a television channel after receiving a phone call from a viewer who claimed to have been raped by him.

Russell Brand hasn't been doing TV panel shows in years. He does podcasts and the occasional tour. He has admitted to being a shagger in the past pre marriage and kids. In 2006 his colleague Trevor Lock was arrested for alleged rape in Edinburgh but the charges were dropped.
Brand and Ryan did co-star in Roast Battle together in 2018. She did say Jo Brand was 'the only person with the last name Brand that doesn't make her question her morals'.
However, my money would be on another name with much bigger lawyers. It's depressing as fuck to think how many men with dubious behaviour there are out there.

Jesus. Can't believe people are apologising for this piece of shit

So his wife finds out he's having a three year affair just after she gives birth to their child. So not only did he fuck around whilst also having sex with her putting her health at risk he'd been having the affair for two years when she got pregnant. And he thought... yeah let's bring another innocent child into this shit storm.

Is this book/publicity junket in the best interests of his ex wife and kids? Will it be helpful for them to have their lives plastered in the press? Or the poor kid knowing they weren't conceived in a loving relationship. But their dad was fucking around at the same time.

And for what? What immense trauma has this man been dealing with to cause him to stick his dick everywhere? Oh he wasn't as famous or as successful as his ego thought he should be.

There's something wrong with him alright. But it's not that he's near suicidal. Hope the subsequent tour and book sales off the back of his family's trauma go some way to soothe his poor fragile ego.

@FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper "I've heard that he spatchcocks Care Bears as a hobby."

He's doing God's work.