A moral question for you all

For me it's my upbringing I think. My parents have found lots of things over the years, top of the range I phones, wallets or purses full of cash, watches, rings etc and have always returned them to owner. I've never even thought about stealing for this reason, because it's not my property. However, if I was entitled to something like say, wages from someone refusing to give me them or similar situation, I think I'd take something of there's like for like because I felt I was owed it.

It's nice to think the reason I don't steal is because simply it is wrong however I think its more a societal responsibility. If everyone started stealing then society breaks or if society breaks down then people begin stealing. In these circumstances I probably would join in.

I think it's called "your moral compass" 🤔 and that's defined by your social upbringing and environment. You knów it's not yours for the taking and so you don't take it. At least I don't. I have read that in some communities everything belongs to everyone and so is free to take by every individual. It doesn't work where I live, although some people have tried it. Like : you need your bike to go to work but somebody else has taken it because you weren't using it at that moment.

@MangoMartini (and @FlapSnacks who posted it earlier), that’s really interesting, thank you. This bit is especially interesting:

“Men’s morality is based on abstract principles of law and justice, while women’s is based on principles of compassion and care.”

Seems like most people’s morality in this thread is based on abstract principles like “well it’s just wrong”. Does that count as law and justice?

I’ve not read the full thread but if you’re interested in questions like this, read up on Kohlberg’s theory of moral development (not without its criticisms, discussed at the end).

https://www.simplypsychology.org/kohlberg.html#:~:text=Kohlberg%20identified%20three%20levels%20of,typical%20of%20the%20earlier%20stage.

I think there can more variables than just A & B involved in a decision to steal. You also need to account for the motivation of the person stealing.

Is it just that they want something shiny, or is the theft of something that they really need but can't afford?

I don't steal because I don't need to, if I did, I would.

I don't view all illegal activity as morally wrong either. Some laws are bloody stupid. Those I choose to comply with if the consequences of not doing so are harsh enough.

Life makes a lot more sense once you let go of "good" and "bad" and stop worrying about what other people think about you.

B
I have stolen from large chain stores. Used to have to steal food to live for a time when I first left home. No way would I have ever stolen something from a small business tho.
Those supermarkets throw away tonnes of food daily. I wasnt going hungry so they could claw a few more pence profit a day.

😂agreed. Stock theft, minor fraud, etc are rampant. I can hold my hand up and say many a time I have walked out of a shop with things I had put on my pram (with a genuine intention to pay) then got to the car park a mere 200m away and thought ah well too bad. I regularly work from home and spend far more than my allocated work breaks not working - do then create a narrative to justify doing so-absolutely.

people are opportunistic creatures. It’s easy to say ‘I never would’ but you really don’t know until you are in that situation.

so many factors come into play, at the end of the day we are human beings- there is no ‘good’ or ‘bad’, we are just combinations of experience, decisions and subjective thinking.

so eager to judge others harshly, while filtering out the worst parts of ourselves…..

Unpopular but being honest, there's a lot of stuff I'd do if I was guaranteed to get away with it.

It's the same for everyone, we just dress it up in different ways to ourselves. The possible negative consequences of taking are what stop us. Robin Hood is still a hugely popular story as are heist movies and whodunnits as well as true crime etc. We daren't do it ourselves (how could we? It's 'wrong end of'?) but we are fascinated by those who do. Because we are all limiting our basic desires and needs for the greater good of being accepted into and supported by the group. The group will likely turn on you pretty fast if you don't have the cleverness/charisma to pull it off. Obviously a stable society can only support a very small percentage of piss takers, in the same way it can only support a very small percentage of the kinds of people who can't tolerate accepting a supermarket 'freebie' without unsolicitedly putting money in a charity box.

Thanks for humouring me @FluffletheMeow (great name btw)!

I agree with everything you’ve said here. It makes sense that if someone’s reply is “it’s just wrong” then they wouldn’t separate a harmful action from a taboo/disgusting action.

Like you I‘m really surprised at the number of posters who just have not entertained this question at all - whether they’re failing to grasp that the OP does not actually intend to steal anything (“OP needs a moral compass”), being unable to separate what they would actually do from what someone else might hypothetically (and more interestingly) do (“I just wouldn’t steal full stop”/“it wouldn’t cross my mind”), or just refusing to think about their response (“it’s just wrong”).

What has surprised me is the number of posters who have replied that they were “brought up right” or “just know it’s wrong” as though that’s somehow superior to those on the thread who have actually thought about - and want to talk about - why it’s wrong. Just stating “well I just wouldn’t” or “it’s just wrong” does not make you more moral than someone who asks why it’s wrong - there seems to be a real sense on this thread that it does.

I don't think people for the most part steal because they want something they can't afford, I think it is more for the thrill of it. But I have no basis for this theory.

Also, and now I'm being pernickety, I think the orginal question was more: is it ethics that keeps you good, or fear of reprisals.

And it seems the majority vote is ethics, but more a deontological (rules-based) approach than teleological (outcomes-based).

Which to be fair is an option C given the wording of the question.

I find this surprising, and honestly, disappointing. But in the plus side we aren't all just thieves but for fear of getting caught.

The thing is, I agree with all of this.

"Because it's wrong" is not a full answer, why is it wrong? Unless this means it breaks my code and any why beyond that is not important to me. I was surprised by how many people more or less said this.

I suppose this approach could lead to mixing rules around hygiene and disgust with rules around treating others well. Again, I find this surprising, because to me, like you, the two are not the same.

Same with "I wouldn't consider it" - well no, me neither, but if I did, why would I still not do it.

(I have slightly misordered this reply but I'm writing on a tablet and editing is a pain, hopefully you get the gist).

With a hypothetical question like the ones in this thread you have to accept the limits of the situation (which is why saying “well I just wouldn’t think of stealing it” is an unsatisfying answer to the original question). Imagine a person who actually enjoys copulating with dead chickens (David Cameron did something similar with a pig, didn’t he?) does this: are they morally wrong to do so? The question is supposed to make you think about whether your own concept of morality is based around the harm done to others or something else, like societal taboos or an innate feeling of disgust.

I think it’s interesting that the poster who brought this up said it was just wrong “in the same way” that stealing is “just wrong”: to me they are wrong in completely differently ways.

Erm, something else… it is wrong!

I don't think this is an ethical question.

I don't want to fuck a dead chicken, ew, but if I did it would be hygiene rather than ethics that would stop me.

Umm...how about C - I've been brought up to know the difference between right and wrong, and theft is theft, no matter if it's from a small business or a large chain store? It's not the fear of reprisals that stops me stealing, it's my own conscience.

The same way fucking behind closed doors a dead chicken who was dead prior to feeling horny is wrong. No victim, but still wrong.

Aha!! This is interesting. This is a great example
of how we base our morals on disgust rather than harm. Like you I feel as though this is somehow wrong but I can’t justify why - after all no harm is done to anyone (it’s not like the chicken’s family will be upset). Can you?

It's just wrong, end of, I don't need any other reason.
If someone I know has something I want, I know there's not using it, they won't ever need it, it would still be wrong for me to steal it.

The same way fucking behind closed doors a dead chicken who was dead prior to feeling horny is wrong. No victim, but still wrong.

Because it's wrong, we adjust our expectations and therefore our needs to our means.
I can roam in a luxury store, look at items, think "oh that £4000 Saint Laurent jacket is nice", but I will never really want it to the point I'd feel frustrated and start thinking about wrong ways to aquire it.

You could leave me an entire night in an open Saint Laurent store, I wouldn't take anything.
(Put a sign saying "help yourself", you can be sure that Id be wearing that jacket + other items within 25 mins)

The flipside of stealing being wrong, aquiring an item I saved for, or sacrified something else for (like choosing a pair of shoes amongst 3 I like), feels good.

I suppose it's because I don't want to live in a society where people just take what they want when they want with no regard for who/ what it might be impacting. I want to live in a civilised and considerate society.

And to a lesser degree, I would be worried about the consequences of getting caught.

I think stealing is a no brainer for most people in most situations because we all know we don't like being stolen from. It simply doesn't need much deep thinking about.

I think it’s still worth thinking about whether we don’t do it because we empathise with the person being stolen from or because we don’t want to be punished for it (whether that’s a prison sentence/fine or social stigma).

There’s a thought experiment about this, sometimes known as the Ring of Gyges: if you had a magical ring that conferred total invisibility and anonymity upon you, what would you try to get away with?

It's just wrong so I wouldn't do it, if I found a purse with £10.00 I'd hand it in, if I found £10.00 blowing around on the pavement, I'd keep it. We all live by our own moral code.

Of course it does

I couldn't be comfortable living with myself knowing that I had stolen something. It would affect my self esteem, especially if it was just because I wanted something that I couldn't afford but wasn't essential. I wouldn't even think about being caught etc. it would just feel wrong.
Stealing a loaf when you can't afford food for children etc is more understandable.