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AIBU?

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Ex husband has hidden

34 replies

oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 09:46

Approximately £20,000 a year of his salary in pension or something to save £9 a month of maintenance?

Help me with the maths please, not sure I'm understanding my recent CMS letter.

He was paying £674 a month. It was our first year of going official after several years arranging it ourselves and him being a bit of a twat when I inherited after our divorce.

New calculation is £665. He hasn't changed job and contact remains the same.

CMS letter says the income AFTER pension but BEFORE tax and insurance is £82,000. It also says the income must go up or down by 25% to prompt a change in maintenance payable,

Am I correct in thinking he's engineered a way to do himself out of £20k gross income per year to facilitate £9 less a month? I mean, I know it's still there in a pension but he's 45 so won't be getting it for a while, surely...

YANBU - yes, he's a noxious dick and also a bit silly

YABU - no, you've done your sums wrong and you're the twat here

OP posts:
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oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 13:45

FarmGirl78 · 18/08/2023 13:24

Using another example......the 25% change thing is for when the non-resident parents amount in calculated on say £82k and they send you a letter out in July saying he's paying £667 (or whatever) and then a few months later he loses his job and finds another one paying £30k. As his income has fallen by more than 25% he could ask them to do another calculation IMMEDIATELY rather than waiting for the next annual review. If he got another job paying £70k they wouldn't do another review, because his pay has fallen by less than 25%. He'd have to wait until the next annual review.

The £9 decrease you've got is just part of their annual calculation. It would seem that his salary has fallen by about £60.

You're very kind to take the time to explain that; thank you and I appreciate it a lot!

OP posts:
GorillaInBikini · 18/08/2023 13:31

I'm sorry you've been treated badly.

But that 20k will save him 8k of tax so it's probably more about that. My husband and I both put similar in pensions and are early 30s.

Hiddenmnetter · 18/08/2023 13:29

milveycrohn · 18/08/2023 12:31

I have read that earning just over the 100k threshhold is the worse amount to earn, as other exemptions are withdrawn, etc.
I mean the worse as a high earner, obviously. Someone earning 80k gets more somehow. But don't ask me the specifics, as I am not in that position and do not know all the details.
So, I am guessing it is a way to maximise his pension.

Yes- between £100,000-£125,000 is subject to the technical “60%” tax rate because it’s the window where you start to lose your personal allowance.

basically for every £2 over 100k you earn, you lose £1 of personal allowance. When you’re a higher tax payer that means there’s an extra £12,570 you’re paying 40% on, except you lose it at half rate, so effectively in that window it’s an extra 20% on the tax you’re already paying. On top of which you lose access to free childcare hours, tax free childcare and some other benefits I think.

it is often very expensive to earn over 100k, unless you earn WAY more than 100k, so people get cautious about breaking that particular barrier. The easiest way to reduce your tax liability is pension contributions or charitable giving. There are other things like cycle2work scheme, etc

FarmGirl78 · 18/08/2023 13:24

Using another example......the 25% change thing is for when the non-resident parents amount in calculated on say £82k and they send you a letter out in July saying he's paying £667 (or whatever) and then a few months later he loses his job and finds another one paying £30k. As his income has fallen by more than 25% he could ask them to do another calculation IMMEDIATELY rather than waiting for the next annual review. If he got another job paying £70k they wouldn't do another review, because his pay has fallen by less than 25%. He'd have to wait until the next annual review.

The £9 decrease you've got is just part of their annual calculation. It would seem that his salary has fallen by about £60.

FarmGirl78 · 18/08/2023 13:17

I think you've misunderstood.

They've worked out his contribution this year, and based on the last 12 months pay, its now £9 less. This change may be because he's now earning less than the previous year, or he's paying more into his pension. CMS are also notorious for getting their figures wrong.....for the past 2 years they've used the full earnings figure to calculate what OH pays his ex ie they haven't knocked off ANY of his pension contributions. They'll have to take this into account for next year's calculation, and so next year will likely fall as they catch up with themselves, even though he's on the same wage.

The bit you've misunderstood is the 25% thing. What they're saying is that they won't recalculate this years amount unless his income falls by more than 25% before the next calculation. Just because his amount is £9 less doesn't mean his £82k income must have fallen by 25%. They're only talking about an extra requested recalculation, not the annual ones. To fall by £9 his income with have only dropped by £60 (assuming he only has 1 child he's paying for).

I don't know if I've explained that very well! I hope you understand what I'm badly trying to say.

milveycrohn · 18/08/2023 12:31

I have read that earning just over the 100k threshhold is the worse amount to earn, as other exemptions are withdrawn, etc.
I mean the worse as a high earner, obviously. Someone earning 80k gets more somehow. But don't ask me the specifics, as I am not in that position and do not know all the details.
So, I am guessing it is a way to maximise his pension.

oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 12:27

amylou8 · 18/08/2023 12:07

He pays £665 a month and you think you're entitled to another £200 for trips/extras? I think that what the maintenance is for.

I don't think I'm entitled to it, which is why I'm asking and prepared to accept a no!

It's for 2 teenagers and a younger one and it really doesn't go that far when food, bills and clothes are counted. It's relative, I know, and great compared to what some receive but I didn't pluck the figure from the air... it's calculated by CMS, not me. Sorry if that upsets you

OP posts:
GasPanic · 18/08/2023 12:24

He's probably done it because it is tax efficient, rather than to reduce your maintenance by 1.5%.

The amount he saves in tax probably far outweighs the £9.

So no, he has done it to save tax with the main motivation, with the £9 reduction being a side consequence of that.

amylou8 · 18/08/2023 12:07

He pays £665 a month and you think you're entitled to another £200 for trips/extras? I think that what the maintenance is for.

Tippley · 18/08/2023 11:53

He won't be doing it for the sake of £9, lots of people when they hit a particular salary to avoid the tax cliff edge. Of course he could still pay the same amount and contribute to trips etc but as the system in this country sucks he doesn't have to pay.

Caprisunny · 18/08/2023 11:53

oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 11:49

I mean, perhaps. I'll never earn close to that in my field, so I wouldn't know!

I'm basing my assumptions off his past behaviour and communication with me about money and his very real bafflement that I still wanted maintenance after my mum died and I inherited some of her estate (not an immense amount either, tbh).

I think there’s a chance that when he decided to do this, it was a bonus (to him) that it would reduce the payment to you.

But I very much doubt it’s the whole reason why. It’a a very very common thing to do

Viviennemary · 18/08/2023 11:50

What does it matter. It's only £9. I doubt this is deliberate. You are getting a reasonable amount of maintenance. It will be to do with tax relief on his pension as others have said. Not maintenance.

oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 11:49

Caprisunny · 18/08/2023 11:47

If I am following correctly he gets paid just over £100k and putting a large amount into his pension. To reduce the taxable amount.

Yes that’s what loads of people do when they earn just over 100k. I was actually advised to that by the ceo and HR when I was offered my last promotions It’s I likely he did it to save sending you £9.

I mean, perhaps. I'll never earn close to that in my field, so I wouldn't know!

I'm basing my assumptions off his past behaviour and communication with me about money and his very real bafflement that I still wanted maintenance after my mum died and I inherited some of her estate (not an immense amount either, tbh).

OP posts:
Caprisunny · 18/08/2023 11:47

If I am following correctly he gets paid just over £100k and putting a large amount into his pension. To reduce the taxable amount.

Yes that’s what loads of people do when they earn just over 100k. I was actually advised to that by the ceo and HR when I was offered my last promotions It’s I likely he did it to save sending you £9.

DontMakeMeShushYou · 18/08/2023 11:46

I think you're overthinking this.

Has he just moved to a salary sacrifice scheme for paying his pension contributions? That would explain the "After pension but before tax and national insurance" bit.

oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 11:45

Theunamedcat · 18/08/2023 11:35

My ex husband quits work every year for a couple of months to cut his contribution down he also short changes me by £8 every month for no reason some men really really are that petty

Sorry he does that. I think some posters just don't believe men will behave like this but some do. I'm not going to mention it to him explicitly but will say "two residential trips this year, can you contribute" - he may not and there'll be nothing I can do but he DEFINITELY won't volunteer to if I don't ask.

OP posts:
caerdydd12 · 18/08/2023 11:43

TheCrystalPalace · 18/08/2023 11:41

They are (55) currently but shortly to change to 57, probably before the OP's ex gets there.

Just had a quick look and it looks providing he's been paying in since before 2021 and the scheme had an age of 55 at that point he should have a protected age of 55 still. Only one way to find out though I guess, try withdrawing at 55 lol.

oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 11:41

towriteyoumustlive · 18/08/2023 11:35

You're massively over-thinking this and sounding bitter.

It's 1.3% of quite a decent amount (compared to what lots of others get), and if he is putting it into a pension then that sounds sensible as the cost of living has gone up massively, so people need to boost their pension pots.

I am bitter. He was horrible to me.

I'm not going to do anything about it, but I will be asking for money towards the bigger, unusual expenses like trips etc because I didn't for ages. He might not pay up, but he might and it's worth asking as he earns more than twice what I do - because I took the career and salary hit when the kids were tiny and his career and earning power flourished, as evidenced by him being able to afford stashing £20k a year which is a pipe dream for a lot of people, including me 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
TheCrystalPalace · 18/08/2023 11:41

They are (55) currently but shortly to change to 57, probably before the OP's ex gets there.

caerdydd12 · 18/08/2023 11:39

Parky04 · 18/08/2023 11:38

Not relevant to OP but he wouldn't be able to take pension until 57.

Why not? Most workplace schemes are 55.

Parky04 · 18/08/2023 11:38

Dotjones · 18/08/2023 09:59

He's presumably paying more into his pension because that way it's not taxed. If he's 45 he can take the pension in ten years' so he'll be saving 20% or whatever by doing this plus the £108 per year he saves in maintenance costs.

From a financial point of view it makes perfect sense to pay as much as possible into your pension from as young as possible. £20000 with ten years to mature is a lot better than £20000 with five years to mature.

Not relevant to OP but he wouldn't be able to take pension until 57.

Dillydollydingdong · 18/08/2023 11:37

He could still voluntarily pay the extra £9

caerdydd12 · 18/08/2023 11:36

oofbitsilly · 18/08/2023 11:29

See, I think he has done it with maintenance in mind - he likely expected to save more than £9 a month. He has form for trying to avoid paying now he believes he is absolved from responsibility due to my inheritance.

Anyway, previously I paid for everything - clubs, uniforms, school residentials for ££££££ - because he made such a song and dance about paying maintenance and it was the only way to stop him taking me to court for 50:50 which would very much have been to the kids' disadvantage. Now I'll be asking him for £200 in September alone to cover half of the upcoming school trips 😂

He doesn't have to pay you extra for the trips though? If you think he's done this to avoid £9 per month he'd hardly going to stump up more than he has to in September. I think you're better off not mentioning it if you honestly think he's done it to spite you, don't give him the satisfaction.

In my opinion though he's probably just thinking ahead to retirement.

towriteyoumustlive · 18/08/2023 11:35

You're massively over-thinking this and sounding bitter.

It's 1.3% of quite a decent amount (compared to what lots of others get), and if he is putting it into a pension then that sounds sensible as the cost of living has gone up massively, so people need to boost their pension pots.

Theunamedcat · 18/08/2023 11:35

My ex husband quits work every year for a couple of months to cut his contribution down he also short changes me by £8 every month for no reason some men really really are that petty