Made MIL cry?!

OP your partner is a prick who simply does not get it. He just does not get it, and he point blank refuses to see your point. I made a comment earlier about him being like a Norman bates-type character. The more you respond, the more I feel justified in making that comment. I really think you should throw him back to the sea (or rather, to mummy). He won't change. He is utterly unable to empathise with you. Even if he can see your point, he really doesn't care at all to do anything about it.

Seriously, he's not worth it.

I agree with @pictoosh while it's sad, it was 20 years ago.

There is power in being The VICTIM and that's what I see here, that maybe other posters aren't subjected to It don't spot it.

My mother uses the power of being a victim. It's her way, or the high way and yet she is still the victim. Nobody else can even briefly be "the victim". Ie, my dad doesnt have a headache, he's a "hypochondriac" & it's not that she is defensive and it's impossible to raise an issue with her, it's that I attacked her and hurt her. I pointed this out to her but got the wounded martyr's silent treatment. When i broke the rules and spike to her anyway i was "aggressive"

the victim always wins. The victim always gets their way, shames you, blames you, smears you and has the support of bystanders. It's a very powerful position.

The problem with this is, unless the MiL is a better person than OP seems to think, she has no reason at all to engage with any of this.
It sounds as though she doesn't like OP anymore than OP does her, no doubt a lot less after the most recent debacle.
She has her son standing beside her, her own attentive daughter next door, what need does she have to negoiate and build bridges with the OP? Unless she actually is the bigger person.
This is a relatively unusual situation in which the (not quite) DiL is very much in the weaker position, as its pretty clear that her partner is going to prioritise the family dynamic he is happy with over her wishes.
The only conversation that has any chance of smoothing this over is one where the OP is conciliatory. And if she can't do that, she's best walking away.

I don't care about the sandwiches. I think mil making them and dh eating them is absolutely fine.

I don't like manipulative people at all though. Mil is twisting the comment to suit her agenda, which is to portray herself as the victim of OP's cruelty. Op said nothing about mil being a widow. That mil took it that way (or makes out she did) is not OP's doing.

Of course it would remind her that she is alone and that she was the last woman in the life of her husband. The OP didn’t need to say anything when her MIL mentioned making her son’s lunch. All this falling out because the OP didn’t like her MIL making a sandwich! I went to my mum’s the other day and she made me some lunch, because she offered, I accepted. I’m 52 I can easily sort my own lunch just like the OPs DH. When my husband arrived he didn’t challenge my mum, I think he quite fancied something to eat too.

"he told me she was very upset because she was so lonely and my comment reminded her she was a widow"

Bollocks. You don't get to pull rank just because WIDOW. Fuck off.

"she said "listen it's simple, I am the first woman of his life", and I said "true but I will be the last""

Can anyone explain to me how this exchange refers to mil being a widow, single or alone? It doesn't does it? It wasn't intended to refer to her being a widow and it doesn't refer to her being a widow.

She's being a manipulative bisom.

Hold your ground op, have a word with her on her own. Try to connect with her. Ask her a lot of questions. Let her talk.
If required, tell her you feel like you're in a competition you didn't enter". Ask her gently what specifically could be better that you are standing in the way of?

If she goes hell for leather with the victim narrative, ask her if she thinks she is "excluded" to only see her son every day? Victims are so manipulative. They make it v hard to change the narrative that they control.

Actually before talking to her, google the drama triangle, i think she's co oerced you in. She is in the victim role, her son gets to betghe Rescuer and you are forced in to the role of the persecutor. Google how to get out of the drama triangle.

This

This! 😂 So funny and ironic that MIL is in for a 'talk' tomorrow (oh, er, missus!) but DP seems to be in the good books now and acquitted of being tied to Mum's apron strings. Strange.

Grow up, Didntmeanto6.

Do the bloke and his mum a favour and find yourself an orphan @Didntmeanto6.

Having a daily visit doesn't stop loneliness. I'm beginning to think this is a wind up , can you really be so lacking in insight?

he told me she was very upset because she was so lonely and my comment reminded her she was a widow. I said that's ridiculous, she sees him every morning and her daughter for lunch every day,

you really don’t get it do you? My friend who’s nearly 60 was widowed at 39 and she still has triggers. Grief doesn’t just go when you lose someone you loved just because family pop in. Grow up.

Wow. You are determined to escalate this aren’t you?

what do you hope to
achieve? Because it looks like you want to ‘win’.

This is probably true. Older retired ladies whose lives have become very small (or perhaps always were) do love a bit of drama.

What pps don't understand is that extended family is very important in France, and this is often expressed by sharing meals, as well as adult children pitching in to do little jobs for their parents. In the OP's case it's not the sandwiches or dinner that's the problem, but the fact that the MIL holds such an exalted position in her son's life that he can't seem to stand up to her even when it causes problems in his relationship. I am 100% sure he will not move far away, and I think it's possible that he won't ever marry or have kids; what DIL would put up with this situation?

When I was OLD in France a couple of years ago, I had a few guys cancel first dates at the last minute. What do you think their go-to excuse was? "I can't make it tonight, I've just remembered I'm having dinner with my parents". A British guy would have said "Sorry, I can't make it tonight, something's come up at work". Basically, parents in France are what work is in the UK: the overwhelmingly important priority which it's completely acceptable to cancel plans for.

Obviously, not all families are enmeshed - a lot of people have to move far away for work, for example - and not all MILs undermine their DILs, but it's a risk you take. Speaking of risk, I think it's possible that the OP's MIL would make a lovely mamie, but I'm not sure the OP should take that chance. Basically, she has a DP problem and should find someone who has her back.

Hmm didn't see the OP mention France. So many posts on this thread it must've slipped by me.

What subservience? I'm just saying in some cultures you don't interfere with the mother-son dynamic.

I might be alone thinking this, and I know it's an 8 year relationship, but it sounds like a lot of hassle and toxicity for just a boyfriend.

And she isn't your mother in law, she's your boyfriend's mum

@cocoloco117, Maybe the mum needs some support after loosing her husband? I think it's nice he goes to visit his mum. I don't understand this required total break from parents once someone meets a partner. My DH go to see his mum often and I aplaud him for that.
He doesn't NEED her to look after him anymore but she sometimes enjoys doing things for him. It doesn't bother me at all. I've never had the slightly desire to replacement her. I am his partner not his carer

I agree - the post from 5128gap (sorry, can't tag) is excellent.

The issue is that the family dynamic for OP is different to the family dynamic that her DH's family has.

Some people blossom in that kind of close family set-up. Others find it choking and claustrophobic. Neither is wrong, it's a case of personal preferences.

I do think that the OP is wrong in trying to compete with her MIL for her husband's affections. There's absolutely no need and it will just end up with everyone miserable.

Either accept the status quo and understand that you are the wife, and that's something his mother can never take away or compete with. But equally she is his mum, and that's something you can't take away or compete with. Two different relationships that can peacefully co-exist - providing you're not trying to tear each other down.

If you don't think that's possible, you'd be better off splitting, especially as you want children. Bringing children into an unresolved dynamic like this would be a disaster.

You may well find that if you're the bigger person and actively choose to disengage from competition and conflict - (because honestly, who cares if she wants to make him lunch?!) - your MIL will respond in kind, and you'll end up with a much healthier dynamic, and possibly even a warm, loving relationship with her.

Agreed.

OP’s mum is like my mum. MIL is like my aunt. I know whose company I prefer.

When you’re used to strong independent professional woman, personalities like MIL are rather tiresome.

It’s France. There is no mama culture. And the subservience inherent in this post is bizarre.

I don’t agree with this. A man can’t have a healthy relationship with his mother unless his partner is on board with it - and the OP clearly isn’t. She doesn’t like the amount of time he spends doing things for his mum, and she doesn’t like the fact that MiL reciprocates with packed lunches to show her appreciation. In one post she says she respects the fact that they have a close relationship and in the next she says MiL should be grateful that she allows it. How does that work ?

Sorry but I think you're over-stepping the boundaries here completely. There's clearly cultural issues at play here.

My partner is from a culture that's very parent/family oriented, and the men are often 'mummy's boys' for life. It's a dynamic you don't interfere with.

Without sounding condescending, from your OP and your follow-up posts it sounds like you're causing a lot of the trouble. If his mum wants to make his packed lunches, let her. If he wants to stay at his mums when she's upset, let him.

I understand from your posts that you want to be at the top of the hierarchy and want your DH to put you before his mum, but in a lot of cultures it's not realistic and not worth the trouble of going there.

If you're otherwise happy with your DH and marriage, do your best to keep civil with your MIL and don't undermine her over silly things like packed lunches. Stay well out of it.