Page 2 | Disability Social Workers

OoopsOhNo · 2023-08-12T07:22:31+00:00

When you have a severely disabled child, you are eligible for a bit of respite. If you need anything above the bare minimum level of respite, you usually need a social worker. What this means, in some areas, is even if you have done nothing "wrong" as a parent, to get any rest you need to: - Agree to be on a Child in Need plan (and go to meetings) - "Safety score" your family at every CiN meeting, and believe it or not there is a right answer as '8' means you don't get services and '5' is child protection enquiry. Professionals also score you. - There is a note at the bottom of the CiN that says although it is voluntary, if you "disengage" the LA can choose to step it up to a Child Protection matter. - Agree to visits of your home (usually every 6 weeks) and you have to show them your child's bedroom. There is also a little box on their forms which asks if they have seen the child alone. - Tell every hospital you take your child to that they have a social worker. - The schools treat you differently (sometimes there is a big advantage to this, for example our schools remained open during strikes to children with social workers) but sometimes it comes with an extra level of sort of concealed monitoring that you can tell is safeguarding tick boxes. - They haven't with us, but they can and do make comments about parenting which wouldn't meet the normal "thresholds" for intervention. I know MN always says Social Care don't have time for this, but perhaps there is an exception for people already open to them?? I have several friends who have experienced this. I hate it. It is completely humiliating and it makes me just want to run away from it all (which of course we can't because we have a social worker...) Now, I understand some of the reasons - in theory - why it's like this (disabled children are particularly vulnerable to abuse) but it also feels like using a risk factor to exert coercive control over parents who happen to have had a disabled child. I also know many parents who don't ask for extra respite because they don't want this. AIBU to think it shouldn't be like this?

Quisquam · 13/08/2023 16:27

DD had a social worker from the Disability Team, and later the Transition team from age 14 - 22. None of that ever happened! Nobody ever asked to see her bedroom? I didn’t let them see DD on her own; but did agree to an independent advocate getting her views, when she was leaving school about whether she wanted to go to FE college.

They came to our house for meetings, went to annual reviews, went to meetings with me at the FE college at my request; and came with me to look round residential options, when Dd was moving on from college.

Original poster

OoopsOhNo · 13/08/2023 16:15

"As for disabled children being more vulnerable or so they have to check rooms etc an autistic 10 year old is not more vulnerable than a NT under 2 year old but nobody is checking their bedrooms or scoring them in meetings. The normal safeguarding measures from CIN for non disabled children should not be applied which is why we need three separate categories."

I agree with this regardless of the interpretation of the law. Can you imagine if we took another risk factor, like postpartum depression, and treated it like this? Said to new mums, "well if you want support for your depression, you have to have 6 weekly visits, bedroom checks, declare to health professionals and now you've come forward, if you choose to disengage we might step up to child protection"??

OP posts:

OvertakenByLego · 13/08/2023 14:20

No, I haven’t misunderstood. A child who is blind is, legally, a child in need as per s.17 of the Children’s Act 1989. LAs sometimes act unlawfully and say DC aren’t a CIN, but that doesn’t change the legislation. Children in need are legally children in need regardless of whether there is an official plan.

NewNovember · 13/08/2023 14:06

OvertakenByLego · 13/08/2023 14:00

No it’s not incorrect.

Section 17(10) of the Children’s Act 1989 states:
“…a child shall be taken to be in need if—
(a) he is unlikely to achieve or maintain, or to have the opportunity of achieving or maintaining, a reasonable standard of health or development without the provision for him of services by a local authority under this Part;
(b) his health or development is likely to be significantly impaired, or further impaired, without the provision for him of such services; or
(c) he is disabled…”

This Contact booklet explains it further and also states:
“Social services departments have a general duty under Section 17 (10) of
the Children Act 1989 to safeguard and promote the interests of ‘children in need,’ and to promote their upbringing by their families. The law recognises disabled children as being in need.

‘Children in need’ are children under 18 years of age and:
are ‘unlikely to achieve or maintain, or to have the opportunity of achieving or maintaining a reasonable standard of health or development without the provision of services by a local authority’, or
whose ‘health or development is likely to be significantly impaired or further impaired without the provision of such services by a local authority’, or
are ‘disabled’.

Section 17 (11) of the Children Act 1989 states that a child is disabled if they:
• are blind
• deaf, or
• non-verbal,or
• suffer from a ‘mental disorder of any kind’ or
• are `substantially and permanently handicapped by illness, injury or
congenital deformity, or such other disability as may be prescribed’.”

I’m sure you are not saying the legislation and Contact, a well regarded charity, are legally wrong.

You misunderstood what I said disabled children are CIN under the children's act but only if they have a CIN plan. Otherwise they are thought as "not disabled enough" . You can absolutely be blind under 18 and not classed as CIN.

OvertakenByLego · 13/08/2023 14:00

No it’s not incorrect.

Section 17(10) of the Children’s Act 1989 states:
“…a child shall be taken to be in need if—
(a) he is unlikely to achieve or maintain, or to have the opportunity of achieving or maintaining, a reasonable standard of health or development without the provision for him of services by a local authority under this Part;
(b) his health or development is likely to be significantly impaired, or further impaired, without the provision for him of such services; or
(c) he is disabled…”

This Contact booklet explains it further and also states:
“Social services departments have a general duty under Section 17 (10) of
the Children Act 1989 to safeguard and promote the interests of ‘children in need,’ and to promote their upbringing by their families. The law recognises disabled children as being in need.

‘Children in need’ are children under 18 years of age and:
are ‘unlikely to achieve or maintain, or to have the opportunity of achieving or maintaining a reasonable standard of health or development without the provision of services by a local authority’, or
whose ‘health or development is likely to be significantly impaired or further impaired without the provision of such services by a local authority’, or
are ‘disabled’.

Section 17 (11) of the Children Act 1989 states that a child is disabled if they:
• are blind
• deaf, or
• non-verbal,or
• suffer from a ‘mental disorder of any kind’ or
• are `substantially and permanently handicapped by illness, injury or
congenital deformity, or such other disability as may be prescribed’.”

I’m sure you are not saying the legislation and Contact, a well regarded charity, are legally wrong.

NewNovember · 13/08/2023 13:48

OvertakenByLego · 13/08/2023 13:05

As @toddlermum27 posted, all disabled children are CiN. Whether LAs officially have DC on CiN plans or not doesn’t change whether the children are CiN. The law states disabled children are CiN.

That is incorrect CIN is a legal status only disabled children actually on CIN plans are CIN. It's basically used as if you don't ask for help we will prevent your child isn't disabled enough to be classed as actually disabled. It's money saving and parents go along with it because they do t wont to be treated like they are abusing their children.
As for disabled children being more vulnerable or so they have to check rooms etc an autistic 10 year old is not more vulnerable than a NT under 2 year old but nobody is checking their bedrooms or scoring them in meetings. The normal safeguarding measures from CIN for non disabled children should not be applied which is why we need three separate categories.

OvertakenByLego · 13/08/2023 13:38

toddlermum27 · 13/08/2023 13:17

Exactly, so by extension when LAs decide to assess dc for a service (respite etc) above what is offered as standard (which will differ by LA) they'll have them on a child in need plan (rather than a different category) because they're a no questioning in law that they are children in need.

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I agree. I think the problem is sometimes the term CIN is portrayed negatively and has negative connotations attached to it, not taking into account the definition is set out in legislation and legally it isn’t a negative term.

toddlermum27 · 13/08/2023 13:17

OvertakenByLego · 13/08/2023 13:05

As @toddlermum27 posted, all disabled children are CiN. Whether LAs officially have DC on CiN plans or not doesn’t change whether the children are CiN. The law states disabled children are CiN.

Exactly, so by extension when LAs decide to assess dc for a service (respite etc) above what is offered as standard (which will differ by LA) they'll have them on a child in need plan (rather than a different category) because they're a no questioning in law that they are children in need.

OvertakenByLego · 13/08/2023 13:05

As @toddlermum27 posted, all disabled children are CiN. Whether LAs officially have DC on CiN plans or not doesn’t change whether the children are CiN. The law states disabled children are CiN.

NewNovember · 13/08/2023 12:53

toddlermum27 · 13/08/2023 07:26

That won't change any time soon because one of the three definitions of child in need in the 1989 children act is children with a disability - what should change is how some LAs approach children with disabilities who are children in need - I am shocked by this thread by how some LAs are treating all child in need the same - it's not this way everywhere.

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But it's only enforced if you request additional respite. As I said my children receive 3.5 via social services as standard they are disabled. Requesting more respite would not change their disability so either all disabled children should be CIN or just those who would be regardless of disability. The children's act does not say disabled children whose parents require additional respite are CIN.

toddlermum27 · 13/08/2023 07:26

NewNovember · 13/08/2023 00:02

Disabled children should not be classed as CIN there should be a separate category. We refused the offer of a disability Sw for this reason . Thankfully where we live all autistic children receive 3.5 hours a week respite via social services but without having a social worker just one initial meeting that doesn't have to take place at home.

That won't change any time soon because one of the three definitions of child in need in the 1989 children act is children with a disability - what should change is how some LAs approach children with disabilities who are children in need - I am shocked by this thread by how some LAs are treating all child in need the same - it's not this way everywhere.

NewNovember · 13/08/2023 00:02

Disabled children should not be classed as CIN there should be a separate category. We refused the offer of a disability Sw for this reason . Thankfully where we live all autistic children receive 3.5 hours a week respite via social services but without having a social worker just one initial meeting that doesn't have to take place at home.

Desiredeffect · 12/08/2023 23:57

Dd not dad 😂

Desiredeffect · 12/08/2023 23:55

When my dad was young she's a adult. Now. We had one till she was 12 and the school invited one to her annual review every year till I told them I don't want them there just because she's disabled it. Does not mean she needs a social worker. Dd still doesn't want one at 23 so I said it'd upto her now

MaCrepeSuzette · 12/08/2023 23:49

This doesn't happen in my LA, my DS gets respite (4 hours a week), and although we were referred by a social worker, we didn't have to do any of the things that you mention in your OP. They just came and met DS and we had a chat.

boboshmobo · 12/08/2023 23:24

@OoopsOhNo I'm sure it will come . For me it's just a means to an end .

My sons bedroom is super tidy so they probably wondered where his toys are .. again I don't care . I know I'm doing my best and having a child with sn is tiring and relentless .

Don't be so hard on yourself

EmmatheStageRat · 12/08/2023 22:38

toddlermum27 · 12/08/2023 22:14

If I was you (and if I had the energy) I would challenge your LA's practice of treatment disability child in need plans the same as safeguarding child in need plans. Non disability child in need plans are very close to child protection and do need the close review of when the balance would tip to needing a cp plan. Although of course there can be safeguarding concerns for disabled children, disabled children are eligible for a child in need plan due to their disability alone, so it's outrageous that all these safeguarding measures automatically apply. Not every LA manages children with disabilities in this way, I'm really sorry this is your experience.

@toddlermum27 thank you, this has slightly boggled my exhausted post-camping holiday mind. So, my DD is a PLAC and is disabled and is now back on a CIN plan. How should I proceed?

toddlermum27 · 12/08/2023 22:14

If I was you (and if I had the energy) I would challenge your LA's practice of treatment disability child in need plans the same as safeguarding child in need plans. Non disability child in need plans are very close to child protection and do need the close review of when the balance would tip to needing a cp plan. Although of course there can be safeguarding concerns for disabled children, disabled children are eligible for a child in need plan due to their disability alone, so it's outrageous that all these safeguarding measures automatically apply. Not every LA manages children with disabilities in this way, I'm really sorry this is your experience.

Thighdentitycrisis · 12/08/2023 22:07

Very true. It sounds like a minefield

Original poster

OoopsOhNo · 12/08/2023 22:05

Thighdentitycrisis · 12/08/2023 21:55

procedures vary across LA’s but my understanding is that under S17 of the Children’s Act all children with a disability are CIN and the LA has a legal obligation to safeguard them, this includes assessing parenting capacity. I would think that process has to be fair and impartial for all families. Your children’s bedroom might be fine, others might not, but I would guess everyone has to be assessed with the same tool.

An LA can choose how to discharge that duty though and overly onerous, intrusive or inflexible approaches are going to stop families seeking help, which might actually increase the risk of safeguarding issues.

OP posts:

Thighdentitycrisis · 12/08/2023 21:55

procedures vary across LA’s but my understanding is that under S17 of the Children’s Act all children with a disability are CIN and the LA has a legal obligation to safeguard them, this includes assessing parenting capacity. I would think that process has to be fair and impartial for all families. Your children’s bedroom might be fine, others might not, but I would guess everyone has to be assessed with the same tool.

Original poster

OoopsOhNo · 12/08/2023 21:54

Polik · 12/08/2023 20:39

I'm DSL in a school on the boarder between two local authorities.

In one LA, all children with an EHCP are automatically also on CIN Plans with CIN meetings

In the other LA, children with disabilities get a named SW with the children's disability service, who is their advocate and contribute to EHCP reviews. Not CIN Plans tho, they are only for safeguarding issues.

This is fascinating- which works better in your experience?

OP posts:

itsgettingweird · 12/08/2023 21:06

In my LA you'd spend more effort trying to actually get a SW so you can access services than they would spend doing any social work.

I never did get one for my disabled ds - not even when he said he was going to end his life after being the victim of knife crime and I'd been awake for 3 days with him.

I just kept being told whenever we had a conversation I was very in tune with my child's needs and how to meet them.

They couldn't get that knowing how to meet need and being physically able too weren't one of the same.

Thighdentitycrisis · 12/08/2023 20:50

.

EmmatheStageRat · 12/08/2023 20:44

Polik · 12/08/2023 20:39

I'm DSL in a school on the boarder between two local authorities.

In one LA, all children with an EHCP are automatically also on CIN Plans with CIN meetings

In the other LA, children with disabilities get a named SW with the children's disability service, who is their advocate and contribute to EHCP reviews. Not CIN Plans tho, they are only for safeguarding issues.

@Polik this just highlights how rubbish my LA is. DD1 finally has an EHCP (it took me three years to achieve). She is only on a CIN plan because police attended on a 999 call. DD is blind and she is diagnosed with ADHD and autism among other disabilities. It makes me realise that we are living in a cave-man borough disability wise.